Jandy VS FloPro not Working Properly when connected to Aquacal SuperQuiet 166

[musketman]

I recently finished setting up my pool and equipment. I've spent the last two days trying to automate the heat pump with the circulation pump to no avail.

My Jandy FloPro 1.65hp pool pump is working fine on it's own, but when I try to connect it to my Aquacal SuperQuiet 166 heat pump it constantly cycles it's RPM as soon as I flip the breaker and it gives a "Jandy VS Pump Fault". It sounds like it's going up to the max RPM and then dropping down to the minimum every couple seconds when I connect it.

I tried to follow Aquacal's instructions for setting up a Jandy VS circulation pumps.

AquaCal Instructions for connecting circulation pumps
Jandy FloPro 1.65hp manual - Page 13-14 shows the wiring and automation

I attached picture of the Heat Pump connection (green board) and also the picture of the RS 485 connection on the Jandy circulation pump. I had an electrician with me and it looks like it's correct. They are the two data wires. The ground and power wires are not connected.

Aquacal pretty much just told me to do what I've done when I called and wasn't very helpful.

Anyone have any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

 

[MSchutzer]

I think the issue is that you have two devices connected to the RS-485 bus but you have no automation controller on the bus.

The Flo-pro 1.65 can be controlled via RS-485 bus and so can the AquaCal, but the Flo-pro is not a controller and won’t send commands to the heater.

Do you have any automation controller in your system such as an Aqualink-RS system?

 

[ajw22]

The Aquacal can be an RS-485 controller.

What are the pump settings in the Aquacal…

Manually Configure a Circulation Pump

 

[musketman]

Thanks for the responses. ajw22 is correct. The Aquacal can be a RS-485 controller.

I have Aquacal's poolsync wifi controller that allows me to control the Aquacal heat pump and attached devices from my phone as well. The Jandy VS Pump shows up on the app with the settings (listed below) but ignores my commands when trying to control it. Still cycles between a high rpm and low rpm (what it sounds like at least) every couple seconds when I flip the breaker on.

I used the Jandy VS Pump preset on the aquacal when configuring the circulation pump:

heat setpoint 88deg
Equipment: Pump
Name: Circulation Pump
Pump Type: Jandy VS
Port: Port B Address 1
Minimum Speed: 600 RPM
Maximum Speed: 2800 RPM
Priming Time: 1 min (Pump is about even with pool level and fills with water easily)
Priming Speed: 2400 RPM
Heat/Cool Speed: 2200 RPM

I thought it might be an issue with the dip switches, but 3-4 are both set to off and from what I read that should correspond to Address 1 on port B (maybe I'm wrong?). There is nothing in the Jandy manual about dip switches 1-2, but not sure if those being on or off could be an issue (I assume they are always on).

Found an Aquacal bulletin (0005) for connecting to a Jandy VS heat pump, but it's for an HP9 control board heater (mine is HP11) and the Jandy pump seems to be an older one as well.

Aquacal Bulleting 0005

Also frustrated that I waited on hold with Jandy for 1.5 hours yesterday for them to tell me they'll only talk to a licensed pool professional or electrician! I bought it myself in store and they wouldn't even speak to me about anything.

The electrician told me to try reversing the two wires as well on the jandy pump (ones going to heat pump). Still did the exact same thing as before.

Still scratching my head on this one.

 

[musketman]

Also the fault shown is "JANDY VS PUMP FAULT" on the Aquacal heat pump screen.

Looking at their website it's defined below:

JANDY vs pump FAULT
ISSUE
The heat pump has either lost communication with a connected Jandy circulation pump. Or the Jandy pump needs attention.
RESOLUTION
Check circulation pump documentation for a resolution for that product

 

[ajw22]

Also the fault shown is "JANDY VS PUMP FAULT" on the Aquacal heat pump screen.

Looking at their website it's defined below:

JANDY vs pump FAULT
ISSUE
The heat pump has either lost communication with a connected Jandy circulation pump. Or the Jandy pump needs attention.
RESOLUTION
Check circulation pump documentation for a resolution for that product

I would not get distracted by the VS PUMP FAULT.

You said you get that when you turn off the pump breaker. That message is to be expected when the pump loses power, the Aquacal sees the pump disappear, and it shows that error.

Unfortunately you are caught in the reason we recommend staying with one vendor and not mixing equipment.

 

[musketman]

Yeah it looks like that may be the case and that makes sense. I'm disappointed because somewhere in Aquacal's manuals it stated that it is compatible with all Jandy VS pumps, which is why I ordered the Jandy pump with it. I'm local to where Aquacal is based so that was one of the big reasons I ended up going with them.

I'm going to play around with it more this week and hopefully find a solution.

 

[ajw22]

I'm local to where Aquacal is based so that was one of the big reasons I ended up going with them.

Then go over to Aquacal and find an executive or engineer who is willing to stand behind their product and support it.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[musketman]

Yeah when I called technical support they told me they would forward everything I sent to the engineering team, but couldn't make any promises they will look into it soon or at all (with my specific Jandy pump). I also told them I am local and they can come out themselves if they'd like to test it and possibly make an updated Jandy Bulletin (like the 0005 I linked above). They said they might take me up on it. I'll call and bug them more if I can't get it to work this week.

Will post updates when I make some progress with everything.

 

[musketman]

Aquacal came out and did some troubleshooting. Newer guy that was on the phone most of the time. He tried: deleting and setting up the equipment again (from heat pump), rewiring with different wires, power cycling everything, and replacing a board with a new (but slightly older version) of the same board. He had no success and the issue persists. He submitted a request for them to come back out and replace the board with the same version that is currently installed.

I have litte hope replacing the board will work, but we'll see.

I have talked to 4-5 different technical support folks at Aquacal that reassured me the heat pump works with all Jandy VS pumps, but this isn't looking promising...

 

[ajw22]

Aquacal engineers may learn from your setup how they need to modify their controls. Hopefully that will lead to a revised control board that will get your setup working. It may just take Aquacal some time to work through the modifications.

 

[MSchutzer]

I always wonder about 2 wire RS-485 connections between different vendors equipment in regard to the ground references on each end of the link.

RS-485 is a differential signal that can tolerate up to +/- 12v common mode offset voltage but this implies that the "ground references" on each end of the link need to be within 12 volts of each other.

While pool equipment bonding requirements assures that the case potentials of the various equipment will be the same, that doesn't necessarily mean that the DC voltage that powers the RS-485 transceivers is referenced to the bonded equipment case potential.

If the DC voltage powering the RS-485 transceivers was generated via a transformer / bridge rectifier then this voltage could be floating relative to the bonded case. This wouldn't be good practice but it is possible.

If the DC power supplying one end or the other end of the RS-485 link was floating with respect to the other end then you could run into RS-485 common mode voltage limits and have issues with the RS-485 data transmission.

I know it's common for Pentair pumps to only use a two wire RS-485 cable connection and this works fine, but that is typically when talking to Pentair or Jandy automation stuff that is likely all using the same DC ground side (likely the bonded potential). Jandy to Jandy connections all recommend four wire connections as the 12 volt and ground return wires are usually connected up.

They may want to measure the DC voltage difference between the "A" or "B" RS-485 wires on either end of the pump / heat pump link to verify that the reference potential is less than 12 volts?

 

[musketman]

It looks like Aquacal fixed the issue. They updated the firmware, replaced the board, and also replaced the button interface from physical buttons to a touch interface for some reason. It sounds like the culprit was likely older firmware installed that was not compatible with the new Jandy VS pump.

It was raining pretty good and I found im not a fan of the touch interface since it doesn't work if it gets wet (like when your phone screen is wet). I'll rarely need to use it once I have it programmed. I can control what I need with the PoolSync app on my phone, so not a big deal for me.

Hopefully this post helps anyone else that runs into this issue