Jandy VersaFlo Bypass, a gimmick?

[andrewb_1985]

Hello folks. I am a licensed gas fitter just getting started installing pool heaters and I have a customer who is dead set on buying a Jandy pool heater because a store salesperson told him about the VersaFlo Bypass. I would rather see him install a Pentair Master temp with cupronickel heat exchanger for the same price as the Jandy with a copper heat exchanger. Both are $3600. To me, the cupronickel is a no brainer as its the most expensive part of the heater. His argument is his pool is not salt and therefore the nickel is not necessary and the VersaFlo will save his heat X from damage and make it last longer. From my understanding, the Bypass still allows 5% of the water through the heater when no call for heat and certainly won't save the heater from poor water chemistry. I have a pool heater myself at home and have never bypassed it when not in use. So, am I missing some hidden benefit about the Bypass? Which heater would you guys buy? At the end of the day it isn't my pool and the customer is always right. I'm just here for my own knowlege.

 

[ajw22]

You are correct and Jandy gives an incentive to install the Versaflo with a 5 year warranty...

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0333803.pdf

I would still buy the Pentair MasterTemp since I have Pentair automation and do not like Jandy selling practices.

From an equipment standpoint the JXI with Versaflo or the MasterTemp is a flip of the coin.

We do hear that the Versaflo mechanism is problematic.

Let's see what @bradgray @1poolman1 @AQUA~HOLICS think.

 

[needsajet]

Great info above from Allen.

As you mention you're soaking up info, I'll just add that all pools are salty. Pools with a saltwater chlorinator will be around 3500 to 4500 ppm salt and non-SWCG pools will be around 500 to 1500 ppm salt. For perspective, ocean water is around 35000 ppm salt. The chloride arrives and accumulates in all pools due to chemical additions (e.g. mostly from liquid chlorine, but also muriatic acid and calcium chloride).

 

[andrewb_1985]

Thanks for the info guys. That is interesting about the warranty. And a good selling point compared to Pentair. I still don't understand the science why limiting the flow saves the heater. I assume there is still stagnant water in the heater with all its chemicals. Even jandy brochure doesn't mension anything about how it saves the heater. Their selling point seems to be reduced load on the pump and electrical cost savings. So then why offer the extended warranty on the heater?

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Heater bypass installation for keeping the friction loss to a minimum when in pool mode, same bypass set up for the filter when in spa mode.

 

[bradgray]

I have to be careful not to let my biases come through too often but frankly I find Jandy frustrating. Both mechanically, operationally and as Allen hinted to, their purchase and aftercare practices are restrictive.

I can confirm on 3 VersaFlo heaters we care for, that bypass bangs and slams brutally everytime the flow drops/increases across the threshold. It sounds like you dropped a fork in a disposal. It's VERY picky about flow rates too - we have to run the pools above ~ 2700 to keep the bypass closed. It also seems to kill the union o-rings over time because of the sudden hammer so often.

Granted, I didn't plumb the pools, so maybe an ideal setup would work better? (I.E those ugly sweeps may be magical?).

Mastertemp are not perfect heaters but I've repaired the big 3 for years and I'd rather a MT hands down. The 5 year warranty is nice, I guess. But after that warranty is up, he's gonna wish he had a different heater. Or maybe I'm projecting - and I would wish he did if I was his service guy.

Is my bias showing again?

 

[needsajet]

So then why offer the extended warranty on the heater?

Probably poor sales of their versaflo invention

 

[andrewb_1985]

I have to be careful not to let my biases come through too often but frankly I find Jandy frustrating. Both mechanically, operationally and as Allen hinted to, their purchase and aftercare practices are restrictive.

Mastertemp are not perfect heaters but I've repaired the big 3 for years and I'd rather a MT hands down. The 5 year warranty is nice, I guess. But after that warranty is up, he's gonna wish he had a different heater. Or maybe I'm projecting - and I would wish he did if I was his service guy.

Thanks for your input. I am seeing a similar theme on many forums about Jandys sales and warranty practices. I certainly wont be pushing their products. Just out of curiosity, how many hours does it take you to change a heat exchanger on most pool heaters?. Just wondering if its worth changing a failed unit even if it is covered under warranty.

 

[bradgray]

Thanks for your input. I am seeing a similar theme on many forums about Jandys sales and warranty practices. I certainly wont be pushing their products.

To be clear, I don't think they're bad products. Or a dishonest company. I just think there are better heaters and automation systems and better install and aftercare practices.

Just out of curiosity, how many hours does it take you to change a heat exchanger on most pool heaters?

4 - 5 on cooperative unit. That said, the only models I've personally done this repair on are the MTs. We try really hard to talk clients out of it. More on that below.

Just wondering if its worth changing a failed unit even if it is covered under warranty.

No! Use the warranty.

It's a gamble to replace a heat exchanger.

In my experience 90% of them fail from corrosion, the other 10% become useless with soot.

Before you do anything, determine why the problem happened and make sure a plan exists to fix it. If it's corrosion, ask for service records and check the bonding. If it's soot (high exhaust temp) check the gas valve using a differential manometer. Adjust accordingly.

You are purchasing a $1-1.5k part, charging roughly the same in labor to replace, and then your client is left with a bill almost on par with a new heater that would have had a multi-year warranty. Except what you leave them with is not new. You still have the same PCB, Blower, gas assembly, sensor lineup, IC, manifold etc. As those fail later (they will), you eventually spend more than a new heater, but still have a declining old box. Also if you repair it, you were the last one to touch it so guess who owns it every day thereafter...

My opinion is that it doesn't make financial sense unless the heater is less than 5 years old *and* is your own *and* you aren't paying for labor.

 

[newdude]

Their selling point seems to be reduced load on the pump and electrical cost savings. So then why offer the extended warranty on the heater?