- Aug 10, 2024
- 6
- Pool Size
- 36000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
I type a lot. I can't help myself. I typed the long wall of text below, which I'll leave intact, but the concise version is this:
That's the summary. Here's the wall of text that I typed originally:
This is my first post other than introducing myself, so be gentle. I've done a TON of reading on this forum (thanks!) but I still have a lot to learn. My signature has the full details of my pool, and I updated the PoolMath logs with all the testing I've done since we opened the pool for the first time 6 months ago. SIde note: If you do look at the history, you'll see my ride on the pH / TA roller coaster, where I was waging an epic war in my pool and funding both sides of the conflict. I was (am) an imbecile, but at least that part of my learning curve is over now.
Anyway, my question now has to do with managing the chlorine level the best I can with the equipment I have. I know this forum is not a fan of automatic chemical controllers, and in particular those which use ORP as a metric for determining chlorine production. Sadly we purchased all the equipment before I found TFP. and since the equipment is only 6 months old, I'm not ready to rip it out quite yet. So I would like to make a solid attempt at finding settings that work reasonably well, realizing that I will need to test often and tweak as I go. I am actually surprised at how much I enjoy testing and managing the pool myself (I NEVER thought I would say something like that), so I'm completely fine if the settings are not "set and forget" and I have to adjust them periodically. I'm just hoping "periodically" means monthly rather than daily or even weekly.
What I have now is a Jandy TruDose controller paired with two Nature2 FSOFT1400 SWG's in parallel. From what I can tell reading the documentation, the controller measures ORP, and if the level is less than a programmable target, the controller provides voltage to the SWG to enable it to produce chlorine. It's not clear how the SWG production rate factors in to this, but I assume that if the SWG is set to 65%, then when the SWG is enabled, it will produce chlorine with a 65% duty cycle. When the controller reaches it's ORP target and the SWG is disabled, no chlorine will be produced regardless of what the production rate is set to. There are two additional caveats. The ORP is only measured and the SWG can only be enabled if the main pumps are running, so the pump timers also factor into the chlorine production. And lastly, the controller has an adjustable overfeed timer, where if the ORP doesn't reach it's target within a programmable timeframe, then the controller will generate an error and the SWG will be disabled until the error is cleared manually. All of this is just my understanding after lots of reading. Is it correct?
Once I got the equipment tuned, it has been maintaining mostly consistent FC levels all summer. However, in the last couple tests, the FC has been pretty high. I had previously set up the SWG to maintain something in the 8-10 range based on my CYA level (I have two big hairy dogs who swim, so I'm fine erring on the high side of the recommended range). The last two tests were 15 and 18, which are much higher than I want. I read on this forum that the SWG production will need to be decreased as the temperature drops, so maybe that's the reason the FC has increased? Less burn-off due to the sun? I dunno, but that's not actually my main question. I know I probably need to make adjustments -- I'm just not sure what the best strategy is for making those adjustments. If I want to reduce the FC in my pool with the equipment I have, is it better to reduce the ORP target (which everyone hates), the SWG production rate, or some combination of both? For example:
Option 1: Set the SWG production to some fixed rate (ie: 60%) and leave it there, and then use the ORP target to control the FC level. So if I want to reduce the FC, for example, then I would reduce the ORP target. This is how the manufacturer assumed the equipment would be used, but based on the collective knowledge in this forum, I think this strategy is fraught with peril because ORP is not a great metric for FC.
Option 2: Set the ORP target to the max value (so that the SWG is enabled all the time and never able to reach it), and use the production rate to manage the FC. So if I want to reduce the FC level, for example, then I would reduce the SWG production rate. This essentially behaves as if I don't have an automated controller, and is probably what everyone without automation does? The caveat here is that the controller has an overfeed timeout. The maximum value I can set for this timeout to is 96 hours, which I assume is 96 hours of pump operation (ie: the timer isn't counting when the pumps are off). I'm currently running the main pumps for 12 hours a day, so this essentially means I would have to manually clear the timeout error every 8 days. I guess I could add this to my weekly routine, but it's not my favorite plan because the SWG would stop producing chlorine if I go out of town for two weeks.
Option 3: Some combination of the two? Maybe set the ORP to some target that is actually reached once in a while (to reset the overfeed timer), but set it high enough so that the SWG production rate "mostly" determines the chlorine level? In this case, if I wanted to reduce the FC level, then I would reduce the SWG production rate. I would not touch the ORP target. I don't know if this is possible. If it helps, I would be willing to set up the pump timers to let the pump run all night once a week. If I did this, maybe the ORP target could be set high enough that during the week with 12 hours / day of pump operation, the ORP target would never be reached, and the SWG production rate would mostly manage the FC level. But then once a week, the pump would run long enough to allow the controller to reach the ORP target and reset the overfeed timer. This would cause the FC to spike once a week, but maybe this would be semi-equivalent to shocking the pool on a weekly basis? I dunno. This plan seems kludgey to me.
After all that babbling, what are your thoughts? I know you probably wouldn't have installed this controller in the first place. But if you had to make it work, how would you attack the problem?
Thanks for your help,
-- Erik
- I have a Jandy TruDose controller paired with two FSOFT1400 SWG's in parallel
- This controller uses ORP to set the FC level, which I know TFP hates
- I can also set the SWG production rate
- So if I want to use the equipment I have, what's the best way to control the FC level?
- Option 1: Fix the production rate, and adjust the ORP target to adjust the FC level? (this is what the manufacturer had in mind)
- Option 2: Fix the ORP target to something too high, and adjust the production rate to adjust the FC? (this has overfeed timer implications)
- Option 3: Use some combination of ORP target and production rate? (there is a hugely convoluted plan proposed below)
That's the summary. Here's the wall of text that I typed originally:
This is my first post other than introducing myself, so be gentle. I've done a TON of reading on this forum (thanks!) but I still have a lot to learn. My signature has the full details of my pool, and I updated the PoolMath logs with all the testing I've done since we opened the pool for the first time 6 months ago. SIde note: If you do look at the history, you'll see my ride on the pH / TA roller coaster, where I was waging an epic war in my pool and funding both sides of the conflict. I was (am) an imbecile, but at least that part of my learning curve is over now.
Anyway, my question now has to do with managing the chlorine level the best I can with the equipment I have. I know this forum is not a fan of automatic chemical controllers, and in particular those which use ORP as a metric for determining chlorine production. Sadly we purchased all the equipment before I found TFP. and since the equipment is only 6 months old, I'm not ready to rip it out quite yet. So I would like to make a solid attempt at finding settings that work reasonably well, realizing that I will need to test often and tweak as I go. I am actually surprised at how much I enjoy testing and managing the pool myself (I NEVER thought I would say something like that), so I'm completely fine if the settings are not "set and forget" and I have to adjust them periodically. I'm just hoping "periodically" means monthly rather than daily or even weekly.
What I have now is a Jandy TruDose controller paired with two Nature2 FSOFT1400 SWG's in parallel. From what I can tell reading the documentation, the controller measures ORP, and if the level is less than a programmable target, the controller provides voltage to the SWG to enable it to produce chlorine. It's not clear how the SWG production rate factors in to this, but I assume that if the SWG is set to 65%, then when the SWG is enabled, it will produce chlorine with a 65% duty cycle. When the controller reaches it's ORP target and the SWG is disabled, no chlorine will be produced regardless of what the production rate is set to. There are two additional caveats. The ORP is only measured and the SWG can only be enabled if the main pumps are running, so the pump timers also factor into the chlorine production. And lastly, the controller has an adjustable overfeed timer, where if the ORP doesn't reach it's target within a programmable timeframe, then the controller will generate an error and the SWG will be disabled until the error is cleared manually. All of this is just my understanding after lots of reading. Is it correct?
Once I got the equipment tuned, it has been maintaining mostly consistent FC levels all summer. However, in the last couple tests, the FC has been pretty high. I had previously set up the SWG to maintain something in the 8-10 range based on my CYA level (I have two big hairy dogs who swim, so I'm fine erring on the high side of the recommended range). The last two tests were 15 and 18, which are much higher than I want. I read on this forum that the SWG production will need to be decreased as the temperature drops, so maybe that's the reason the FC has increased? Less burn-off due to the sun? I dunno, but that's not actually my main question. I know I probably need to make adjustments -- I'm just not sure what the best strategy is for making those adjustments. If I want to reduce the FC in my pool with the equipment I have, is it better to reduce the ORP target (which everyone hates), the SWG production rate, or some combination of both? For example:
Option 1: Set the SWG production to some fixed rate (ie: 60%) and leave it there, and then use the ORP target to control the FC level. So if I want to reduce the FC, for example, then I would reduce the ORP target. This is how the manufacturer assumed the equipment would be used, but based on the collective knowledge in this forum, I think this strategy is fraught with peril because ORP is not a great metric for FC.
Option 2: Set the ORP target to the max value (so that the SWG is enabled all the time and never able to reach it), and use the production rate to manage the FC. So if I want to reduce the FC level, for example, then I would reduce the SWG production rate. This essentially behaves as if I don't have an automated controller, and is probably what everyone without automation does? The caveat here is that the controller has an overfeed timeout. The maximum value I can set for this timeout to is 96 hours, which I assume is 96 hours of pump operation (ie: the timer isn't counting when the pumps are off). I'm currently running the main pumps for 12 hours a day, so this essentially means I would have to manually clear the timeout error every 8 days. I guess I could add this to my weekly routine, but it's not my favorite plan because the SWG would stop producing chlorine if I go out of town for two weeks.
Option 3: Some combination of the two? Maybe set the ORP to some target that is actually reached once in a while (to reset the overfeed timer), but set it high enough so that the SWG production rate "mostly" determines the chlorine level? In this case, if I wanted to reduce the FC level, then I would reduce the SWG production rate. I would not touch the ORP target. I don't know if this is possible. If it helps, I would be willing to set up the pump timers to let the pump run all night once a week. If I did this, maybe the ORP target could be set high enough that during the week with 12 hours / day of pump operation, the ORP target would never be reached, and the SWG production rate would mostly manage the FC level. But then once a week, the pump would run long enough to allow the controller to reach the ORP target and reset the overfeed timer. This would cause the FC to spike once a week, but maybe this would be semi-equivalent to shocking the pool on a weekly basis? I dunno. This plan seems kludgey to me.
After all that babbling, what are your thoughts? I know you probably wouldn't have installed this controller in the first place. But if you had to make it work, how would you attack the problem?
Thanks for your help,
-- Erik
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