That's a tough one to figure out, especially the gas situation here. You have to sign up through a 3rd party for your therm cost, along with the extra fees in the bill. Electric isn't all that cheap either.
Jan 2025 IG pool build in Georgia, need liner re set!!!!
- Thread starter suzook
- Start date
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- May 23, 2015
- 25,693
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Take a look at your existing gas meter at the house. Post a picture. My guess is that it will not be sufficiently sized for a pool heater which means the gas company will have to upgrade it. Some do it for “free” (cuz you’ll be purchasing a whole lot more of what they’re selling when you run the pool heater) and some charge for the service upgrade.
You might give the 3rd party a call and ask for a pricing quote based on the appliances you have plus the pool heater. They should at least be able to give you ballpark numbers.
Meter is big enough, especially since the only thing using gas during the pool season would be the stovetop.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,693
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Maybe. Depends on what the nameplate says. A 400kBTU/hr gas heater uses 400 cu ft of gas per hour. The meter is rated for flow rate at a given delivery pressure. Most residential homes are built with gas meters that supply less than 200 cu ft per hour because, as you say, normal gas appliances don’t draw high volumes. Pool heaters are not normal gas appliances. They use an enormous amount of fuel compared to any other residential gas appliance. If the meter can not supply enough gas flow at the right pressure (typically 7” to 11” WC), the pool heater will be starved of gas and either burn very lean or have all sorts of weird errors that shutoff the heater randomly. A lot of new pool owners think their heaters are lemons when the reality is their gas meter and, more often, their gas lines were not sufficiently sized for the appliance. Then you get the nasty headache of trying to figure out how to redo a gas line after all the trenches are filled and concrete is poured. Not fun at all.
If you do decide to go with gas, be very sure the pool builder and his plumbing sub know what they are doing and spec the gas line size appropriately. There’s really no going back once a gas line is buried.
Well I only have a 250BTU meter. To be honest, I was only going to get a 250k heater. No spa, and only about 18k gallons. But, yes, I would definitely make sure they pipe it correctly.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,693
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
A lot of equipment is rarely designed to work at 100% of the rated nameplate values. Like circuit breakers, you don’t want to put more than 80% of the load on. A 250kBTU heater is going to draw 250 cu ft of gas per hour but only deliver about 200kBTU of heat because gas heaters are only about 80% efficient. Your meter can only supply 250 cu ft of gas per hour at the rated pressure (typically 1/2 psi or less).
A 250kBTU heater is going to stress that meter to its limit. While it might not have any effect on the rest of the house, being right up against the limit means potentially running the heater too lean which impact efficient operation. It could also cause intermittent shutdowns of the heater if the gas pressure drops.
I suggest, if you decide to go with gas, that you post up the exact specs of the heater you intend to install as well as the meter nameplate (which will give details about what it’s capable of doing) AND the exact run length of pipe from the meter to the equipment pad. @JamesW is an Expert Member of TFP who very good at doing the calculations for gas delivery and he can tell you right away if the proposed design will work or not.
The AC-250 can deliver different flow volume based on the allowable pressure drop.
The meter will deliver 250 CFH at a 0.5" pressure drop.
The meter will deliver 355 CFH at a 1.0" pressure drop.
If you allow for a 1.5" pressure drop, the meter will provide about 460 CFH.
If you allow a 2" pressure drop, the meter will provide 565 CFH.
If you have a main regulator providing 7" w.c before the meter, you will have 6.5" w.c after the meter.
Plumbing is generally designed to have a maximum pressure drop of 0.5" w.c, which puts the heater inlet pressure at 6.0" w.c.
It depends on the heater pressure requirements and you want the inlet pressure to be at least 1" above the minimum for margin.
Most likely a 250 class meter will work for a 250 heater as long as it is the only appliance operating, but you want to verify the pressure during operation to be sure.
Does your home have gas heat, dryers, stoves, water heaters, gas grills etc?
Common BTU ratings
Boilers: 100,000 - 200,000 BTUs/hr*
Boilers (High Efficiency): 80,000 - 160,000 BTUs/hr*
Dryer: 22,000 BTUs/hr
Furnace: 100,000 - 150,000 BTUs/hr*
Furnace (High Efficiency): 75,000 - 100,000 BTUs/hr*
Garage Unit Heaters: 30,000 - 100,000 BTUs/hr
Gas Fireplace (standard) 25,000 - 35,000 BTUs/hr
Generator (standby): 200,000 - 300,000 BTUs/hr
Outdoor Grill: 25,000 - 40,000 BTUs/hr
Pool Heater: 199,000 - 400,000 BTUs/hr
Range: 60,000 BTUs/hr
Range (Commercial): 120,000 - 225,000 BTUs/hr
Spa Tub: 100,000 - 200,000 BTUs/hr
Tank Water Heater: 35,000 - 60,000 BTUs/hr*
Tankless Water Heater: 140,000 - 200,000 BTUs/hr*
Natural Gas Appliance Calculator | We Energies
Find the cost of using most major natural gas appliances.
www.we-energies.com
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Note 1 The demand ratings of the appliances listed in this table are minimums.
Demand ratings of the actual installed appliances may be higher.
Refer to name plate rating on appliance–use the input Btu/h number.
The tables used to size gas piping are based on Cubic Feet per Hour (CFH).
To determine the CFH divide the input of the appliances by the average Btu per cubic foot.
Contact your local gas supplier to obtain the Btu per cubic foot in your area.
We have a gas fireplace that's only used in the winter, when pool is not used, and have a 4 burner stove top using gas. We do have gas for the heat, but that will never be running when the pool heater is.View attachment 621271
The AC-250 can deliver different flow volume based on the allowable pressure drop.
The meter will deliver 250 CFH at a 0.5" pressure drop.
The meter will deliver 355 CFH at a 1.0" pressure drop.
If you allow for a 1.5" pressure drop, the meter will provide about 460 CFH.
If you allow a 2" pressure drop, the meter will provide 565 CFH.
If you have a main regulator providing 7" w.c before the meter, you will have 6.5" w.c after the meter.
Plumbing is generally designed to have a maximum pressure drop of 0.5" w.c, which puts the heater inlet pressure at 6.0" w.c.
It depends on the heater pressure requirements and you want the inlet pressure to be at least 1" above the minimum for margin.
Most likely a 250 class meter will work for a 250 heater as long as it is the only appliance operating, but you want to verify the pressure during operation to verify.
Does your home have gas heat, dryers, stoves, water heaters, gas grills etc?
View attachment 621267
Common BTU ratings
Boilers: 100,000 - 200,000 BTUs/hr*
Boilers (High Efficiency): 80,000 - 160,000 BTUs/hr*
Dryer: 22,000 BTUs/hr
Furnace: 100,000 - 150,000 BTUs/hr*
Furnace (High Efficiency): 75,000 - 100,000 BTUs/hr*
Garage Unit Heaters: 30,000 - 100,000 BTUs/hr
Gas Fireplace (standard) 25,000 - 35,000 BTUs/hr
Generator (standby): 200,000 - 300,000 BTUs/hr
Outdoor Grill: 25,000 - 40,000 BTUs/hr
Pool Heater: 199,000 - 400,000 BTUs/hr
Range: 60,000 BTUs/hr
Range (Commercial): 120,000 - 225,000 BTUs/hr
Spa Tub: 100,000 - 200,000 BTUs/hr
Tank Water Heater: 35,000 - 60,000 BTUs/hr*
Tankless Water Heater: 140,000 - 200,000 BTUs/hr*
Natural Gas Appliance Calculator | We Energies
Find the cost of using most major natural gas appliances.
I went through the same thing with our build trying to figure out what size gas meter was needed. I got mixed messages from the builder and even the gas company. The gas company did confirm that even without our pool heater, we were already undersized due to our new tankless water heater. Ultimately we ended up getting our meter swapped for the big 2 PSI model so we are now able to support everything in our home (tankless heater, furnace, oven/stove, grill, fireplace, and pool heater). The good news is the meter upgrade is at no cost to the homeowner.
Yes, give them a call and tell them you may need to upgrade your meter. They will likely ask you how many gas appliances are in the home and whether you need either a 7” W.C. or 2 PSI meter. I opted for the 2PSI model so I filled out a form online and then they scheduled the replacement. The pool builder plumber will be responsible for installing any needed regulators. With the 2 PSI meter, two regulators were needed. One for the house and another for the pool heater.
Sounds like a plumber is needed to add the regulator for the house? Although my current meter has one already for the house. Would gas company just replace the meter, and reuse the existing regulator? Or does a plumber need to be around when the meter gets replaced?
Not sure if I should admit this on here.. but I work for the subject gas company
. Also going through a service & meter upgrade at our house right now for our pool heater, so getting experience as a customer as well. I’ll gladly answer any questions. Everything said above is accurate. Definitely submit the request form on the website & a marketing rep will reach out. Meter upgrades are quick, service upgrades take time. If you upgrade to 2# delivery from AGL, a plumber will have to install a regulator(s) on your customer piping after the meter at your cost. The company takes care of everything before the meter & if you’re adding load there’s a good chance their work will be at no cost to you, but the marketing rep will determine that once you submit the form.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,693
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Determining whether or not you need a service upgrade (increasing delivery pressure) is dependent on the design and layout of your pool’s equipment pad relative to the meter. A 2psi delivery line isn’t really necessary in a lot of circumstances. If the run from the meter to your pool heater is a relatively straight shot with no major obstructions in the way then you can often just run a larger diameter buried PVC pipe when the delivery pressure is 7-11” WC. Typically you see the higher service pressures when people have to run a gas line through or around major structures and it’s just cleaner and easier to use a smaller diameter black galvanized pipe for that purpose. Since those runs typically use 3/4” pipe, you sometimes need to go up to 2psi service pressure with regulators at the equipment pad to bring the pressure back down to what the heater needs (usually ~ 7” WC).
This is where having a qualified gas plumber comes in handy. If your pool builder doesn’t understand gas system design and installation, then they should be consulting with a subcontractor that knows what they’re doing so that you get the best possible design advice. The gas company only cares about their meter and everything before it. They aren’t going to provide guidance on how to layout the gas line for the pool.
This is where having a qualified gas plumber comes in handy. If your pool builder doesn’t understand gas system design and installation, then they should be consulting with a subcontractor that knows what they’re doing so that you get the best possible design advice. The gas company only cares about their meter and everything before it. They aren’t going to provide guidance on how to layout the gas line for the pool.
Its a straight 50 foot run from the meter to where the Pad will be. 2PSI seems like serious overkill, but I am not a plumber.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,693
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
That’s a very easy run. Every heater manufacturer has a chart for pipe diameter versus run length. In your situation you could easily do 1-1/4” diameter buried PVC at low pressure. I don’t know about today’s prices but my PB charged $15/ft for a gas run and we did 2” pipe (my run was well over 150ft). We still did low pressure.
I think all you’ll need is a meter upgrade, no service change.
A heat pump might work just fine for you as well. But you would have to run a decent sized electrical line out to the equipment (240V/60A service). The biggest downside I’ve seen with those is that service is terrible when there’s a problem. Pool service companies aren’t usually qualified or knowledgeable about how to work on HVAC equipment and HVAC companies won’t touch pool equipment. So when an issue pops up it can be very hard to get someone in who knows what they’re doing. You’ve also got a noise issue to deal with … they are basically another AC unit when running so if you don’t like loud noises, you’ll want to make sure that the equipment is no where near the pool with a good sound barrier around it.
Putting the heater on the back burner for now. Will add it eventually whether it be this year or next. Does look like the dig will begin jan 6th. Will post pics. Getting excited and stressed already. Lol.