Is my plumbing efficient? Let's compare Intelliflo VSF stats!

[JamesW]

Maybe open the valve again after running the pump for a while to see if anything else has traveled through the lines to the valve.

 

[rhawke]

Alright you guys gave me lots of homework and I did quite a bit of it this weekend:

1) Cleaned the filter again (it has only been 3 weeks, it didn't look very dirty ... so I didn't expect much improvement)
2) Tried the backflushing with the garden hose. Our garden hose has quite low pressure (3 gpm) but I stuck it in the suction pipes anyway and with a cloth made sure the water would go into the pipe and not the pump basket. I think water made it back to the pool but I didn't see any dirt or anything come out

Here are the results after 1) and 2) with all the valves in pool mode position (remember the numbers in my first post were with the suction and return valves set to 80 % pool with 20 % spa)

RPM	Watt	GPM	PSI Filter	PSI Pump
1000	58	4	3	3
1200	90	9	4	4
1400	149	16	5	6
1600	238	25	7	8
1800	354	34	9	10
2000	501	42	10	12
2500	985	58	14	19
3000	1700	72	20	27
3450	2560	83	26	35

3) I next removed the eyeballs to see what would happen. That led an increase in GPM and a drop in PSI.

RPM	Watt	GPM	PSI Filter	PSI Pump
1600	247	28	6	8
2000	514	45	9	12
2500	1016	62	13	18
3450	2620	88	22	34

4) And as a last step, with the eyeballs still removed I tested out different valve positions at full 3450 rpm pump speed.

I set the Return to middle where it has the best flow and then tested different positions on the three way valve on the Suction side:

	Suction Valve Position
	Pool	Middle	Spa
GPM	88	90	87
PSI Pump	34	34	34

Then I kept the suction valve in the middle position and changed the return valve position:

	Return Valve Position
	Pool	Middle	Spa
GPM	83	90	75
PSI Filter	27	22	30
PSI Pump	35	34	36

After 2 hours of cleaning and testing different things, it looks like I gathered a lot of information but have not really made any progress in improving the GPM flow to what you guys consider typical. Just to mention the distance again to make sure there is no miscommunication on this, the closest corner of the pool is approx. 40 ft from the pump, the furthest return from the pump is approx 90 ft from the pump. The spa is approximately 75 ft from the pump.

Any more ideas on what I should try?

 

[JamesW]

Based on your upsized plumbing, I would expect lower head loss on the suction side.

I suspect that there might be some more debris in the lines, partly based on the stick that was found.

 

[rhawke]

Thanks James, but since I have 4 different suction lines (3" spa drain, 3" pool drain, two 2.5" skimmers) and there is barely any difference depending on which ones are open and which ones are closed, is that really possible? The GPM at full speed does not change in all of these combinations:
1) 3" spa only
2) 3" pool only
3) 1 skimmer fully open and second skimmer only 20 % open
4) 3" pool open + both skimmers open

Wouldn't this mean that there is the same amount of dirt in all the pipes?

I already tried the hose, so I guess any other option would require a professional service to come and try to clean out pipes?

 

[JamesW]

The system is working ok. The flow seems a little lower than I would expect. I can't think of anything else that you can do to improve performance.

There might not be anything in the lines.

Other than having them blown or vacuumed out, I'm not sure what else could be done to verify that they are clean.

 

[Heens]

I have the same pump and am currently running at 30GPM and 225 watts. My cartridge filter reads about 1-2PSI.

 

[rhawke]

I have the same pump and am currently running at 30GPM and 225 watts. My cartridge filter reads about 1-2PSI.

A few follow up questions :

What RPM does your pump show at this setting?

How far is it to the edge of the pool and how far to the furthest return?

What size is your plumbing?

 

[mas985]

Thanks James, but since I have 4 different suction lines (3" spa drain, 3" pool drain, two 2.5" skimmers) and there is barely any difference depending on which ones are open and which ones are closed, is that really possible? The GPM at full speed does not change in all of these combinations:
1) 3" spa only
2) 3" pool only
3) 1 skimmer fully open and second skimmer only 20 % open
4) 3" pool open + both skimmers open

Wouldn't this mean that there is the same amount of dirt in all the pipes?

I already tried the hose, so I guess any other option would require a professional service to come and try to clean out pipes?

Would you happen to have a suction gauge you could measure the suction on the pump basket?

 

[rhawke]

Would you happen to have a suction gauge you could measure the suction on the pump basket?

I don't, but maybe the pool builder does and he promised me he will come out soon to see if he can find something. Do you have a link to an example so that I know what it looks like?

Yesterday I also isolated each line separately on the suction side and ran it for 3-4 minutes under full speed. That actually helped a little because the GPMs increased and also when I went back to lower speed I gained about 1-2 GPM.

But what I noticed is that when i had exclusively Skimmer A open there were tons of tiny bubbles with just a lot of "commotion" in the pump and they wouldn't go away, enough to where I could not see the pump basket. I did not have that with any of the other 4 suction lines including Skimmer B. There it started out like that but after 1 minute all you would see is clear water and you could see the bottom of the pump basket. But interestingly the GPM between Skimmer A only and Skimmer B only was almost the same 77 gpm vs 78gpm.

 

[JamesW]

Google vacuum gauge 1/4 npt for examples. About $10 to $20.

What do you get for pump pressure and filter pressure on skimmer A vs B?

The pump pressure minus the filter pressure should give you an idea about what the suction vacuum is.

They should be about the same.

It seems like skimmer A might be clogged, causing the pump to get close to cavitating.

 

[RedBluePool]

Hey, with your clean clear and plus cart filter, when depressurizing and removing your cartridges some times debree will go into your manifold and get stuck into your intellichlor (salt cell)

So I would suggest to check your salt cell for blockage.