Intermittent tripping of GFCI

[PoolTime2022]

Hi, I’m looking for some guidance on addressing the intermittent tripping of my GFCI. I have read through several threads and think I have narrowed down what I need to do to fix this issue, but I’m looking for guidance.

Current setup:
I have a Pentair Easy Touch load center. It’s fed from a 100 amp sub panel that splits into two 50 amp GFCI breakers. One feeding the Easy Touch.

Load center breakers:
15 amp to the Easy Touch controls
20 amp to GFCI outlet on side of load center then feeds three relays for pool lights
20 amp to BBQ Island
4 pole 20 amp breaker feeding Pump Relay #1 and Relay #2. #1 relay is connected to my vs Filter pump, heater and SWG. #2 Relay connects my booster pump.
4 pole 20 amp breaker feeding a vs pump for a waterfall and Relay #4. #4 goes to a single speed pump for 2 Laminars.
20 amp gfci to Relay 3,5 to pool lights.


Issues that need corrected as I see them.
#1 Remove the 50amp GFCI breaker at the sub panel and replace with regular 50amp breaker.

#2 replace all breakers in the Easy Touch with GFCI breakers with same rating.

#3 wire VS filter pump directly to breaker, it should not be attached to the pump relay #1.

#4. Power pump relay #1 from relay #2 to power SWG and heater.

My issue is that I do not have enough room in my load center for all the breakers. Replacing the two 4 pole breakers feeding my 4 pumps with four 2 pole gfci breakers takes up more space. I currently have 2 open slots on the load center, but will need 2 more to accomplish what I’m planning.

I can move the breaker for the BBQ island into the sub panel that feeds easy touch. This frees up 1 space in the Easy Touch.

I was thinking that I could eliminate one of two 20amp breaker that feed the lights and run all from a single breaker. I have 4 pool lights, 1 spa light, 1 small light behind the waterfall and the 2 laminar lights. All lights are Pentair color changing lights. This would free up a second space in the Easy Touch.

Please let me know your thoughts on my plan. I’m open to other ideas on accomplishing the the fix. We’re planning a couple week long trips this summer and don’t want to worry about the breaker tripping and shutting down the system while we’re gone.

Thank You,
Ryan

 

[Ahultin]

Are your lights 120v or 12v ? If 12v what size transformers?

The system breaker does not need to be gfci.

What model pumps? From your signature I assume the laminar is a whisperflo 1/2 hp which states 5.5amps (230v) and the boost-rite says 5 amps (230v) so you could easily get away with putting those two on a single dual pole 20amp gfci breaker.

You could use a tandem 15/20 amp siemens breaker with the 15amp leg feeding the system transformer and the 20 amp leg feeding the line side of the gfci convenience outlet with the load side feeding the relays for the lights.

In reality the system transformer only takes @2amps so you likely could feed it from one of of the other single pole breakers (though I prefer the idea of keeping it isolated if you can)

 

[ajw22]

The system breaker does not need to be gfci.

…. If the subsequent breakers for the pumps are all GFCI.

That panel had a creative electrician who met the code requiring GFCI protection for all the pumps by using one GFCI breaker at that point.

Of course that means when the GFCI trips the problem can be any of the four pumps.

 

[Ahultin]

Looking at the photo closer, i can see one of the wire runs is labeled glow Brite and 2 labeled laminar. Assuming 5 transformers being fed of the 5 light relays, they will be max 300 watts each which could be fed off of a single 20 amp breaker (2400 watt max load)
Also noticed that there is romex coming in from the bottom left of the panel. I assume this is the bbq island (as that appears to be done after the fact). Tracing it further this attaches to the line side of the gfci convenience outlet. Do you know what this services? Romex is not allowed in damp/wet areas (ie outside or in conduit). This also looks like it is white which is likely 14/2. Since this is (if my assumption is correct) fed by a 20amp breaker, thru the convenience outlet, this should be changed to 12g thwn when you do all the other work in the panel.

 

[Ahultin]

…. If the subsequent breakers for the pumps are all GFCI.

Yup, OP mentioned intent was to replace all breakers with gfci but I can definitely see the need for clarity

 

[ImpalaSS]

You have many issues there that need attention but one thing you might think about to save space is to change some of your pumps to 120v. I'm not sure what pumps you have but some can either be 240v or 120v. Then depending on the amp draw, you can double up some of the smaller pumps by feeding 2 relays from 1 circuit.

You also dont want to feed your panel from a GFCI breaker. Use individual GFCI breakers in your EZ Touch. It costs quite a bit but thats how it has to be done.

 

[1poolman1]

Hi, I’m looking for some guidance on addressing the intermittent tripping of my GFCI. I have read through several threads and think I have narrowed down what I need to do to fix this issue, but I’m looking for guidance.

Current setup:
I have a Pentair Easy Touch load center. It’s fed from a 100 amp sub panel that splits into two 50 amp GFCI breakers. One feeding the Easy Touch.

Load center breakers:
15 amp to the Easy Touch controls
20 amp to GFCI outlet on side of load center then feeds three relays for pool lights
20 amp to BBQ Island
4 pole 20 amp breaker feeding Pump Relay #1 and Relay #2. #1 relay is connected to my vs Filter pump, heater and SWG. #2 Relay connects my booster pump.
4 pole 20 amp breaker feeding a vs pump for a waterfall and Relay #4. #4 goes to a single speed pump for 2 Laminars.
20 amp gfci to Relay 3,5 to pool lights.


Issues that need corrected as I see them.
#1 Remove the 50amp GFCI breaker at the sub panel and replace with regular 50amp breaker.

#2 replace all breakers in the Easy Touch with GFCI breakers with same rating.

#3 wire VS filter pump directly to breaker, it should not be attached to the pump relay #1.

#4. Power pump relay #1 from relay #2 to power SWG and heater.

My issue is that I do not have enough room in my load center for all the breakers. Replacing the two 4 pole breakers feeding my 4 pumps with four 2 pole gfci breakers takes up more space. I currently have 2 open slots on the load center, but will need 2 more to accomplish what I’m planning.

I can move the breaker for the BBQ island into the sub panel that feeds easy touch. This frees up 1 space in the Easy Touch.

I was thinking that I could eliminate one of two 20amp breaker that feed the lights and run all from a single breaker. I have 4 pool lights, 1 spa light, 1 small light behind the waterfall and the 2 laminar lights. All lights are Pentair color changing lights. This would free up a second space in the Easy Touch.

Please let me know your thoughts on my plan. I’m open to other ideas on accomplishing the the fix. We’re planning a couple week long trips this summer and don’t want to worry about the breaker tripping and shutting down the system while we’re gone.

Thank You,
Ryan

Is the 50A feeding the panel a Siemans breaker? Other brands are known to have problems with nuisance tripping when used with Pentair VSP. Each pump should be on its own GFCI circuit, as has been pointed out.

 

[Ahultin]

Is the 50A feeding the panel a Siemans breaker?

@1poolman1 , Op has not posted pictures of the subpanel feeding the pool panel yet but I was curious since your in the industry, is the hodgepodge of breakers (challenger/cuttler-hammer/Murray) something you commonly see? It strikes me as questionable especially considering the op said the pool is only 5yrs old.

 

[1poolman1]

@1poolman1 , Op has not posted pictures of the subpanel feeding the pool panel yet but I was curious since your in the industry, is the hodgepodge of breakers (challenger/cuttler-hammer/Murray) something you commonly see? It strikes me as questionable especially considering the op said the pool is only 5yrs old.

I see it only on systems where someone is trying to put too many breakers in a panel. To do it correctly a separate subpanel with the correct breakers should be installed. Have done that many times to get the proper breakers for the equipment, either at the pad or at the main panel.

 

[PoolTime2022]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I’ll try to answer all the questions. The pool was about 5 years old when we purchased the house 2 years ago, so it’s now about 7. All wiring was done prior to our ownership.

Are your lights 120v or 12v ? If 12v what size transformers? I believe they are 12V, I have 2 low voltage transformers outside of the load center. Intermatic PX100 and Pentair PS300 Input 120v output 12V or 13v

What model pumps? Boost Rite LA-MS05, ½ HP Superflo SF-N1-1/2F/ 340036, Intelliflo 011018

The Rolmex wiring feeds a separate box that contains equipment for a back yard speaker system. I will change out those wires to properly sized non rolmex ones.

I like the idea of feeding the Boost right and Super flow from the same breaker as this would save some space (using 1 less 2 pole breaker) and I would not have to move the BBQ breaker out of the Box.

My new plan of attack.

#1 Remove the 50amp GFCI breaker at the sub panel and replace with regular 50amp breaker.

#2 replace all breakers in the Easy Touch with Same Brand (Siemans) breakers. To include Three 2 pole GFCI breakers for the pumps and keep the others rated the same as they currently are.

#3 wire VS filter pump directly to breaker.

#4. Power pump relay #1 from relay #2 to power SWG and heater.

#5 Power booster pump and Laminar pump from same breaker.

#6 Remove/rewire Rolmex to speaker system.

Please let me know if this sounds correct.

 

[Ahultin]

20 amp to GFCI outlet on side of load center then feeds three relays for pool lights

20 amp gfci to Relay 3,5 to pool lights

#1 relay is connected to my vs Filter pump, heater and SWG

You should keep them this way so that the swg and heater can only function when the filter pump is on. New Gfci breaker feeds line 1 and line 2 side of relay 1. Vs pump (I'm assuming the vs pumps are both connected via rs485) to line 1 and line 2 side of Relay 1 . Heater and swg to load 1 and load 2 side of Relay 1(assuming both connected 240v)

I believe they are 12V, I have 2 low voltage transformers outside of the load center. Intermatic PX100 and Pentair PS300 Input 120v output 12V or 13v

If this is correct, you have 2 transformers and 5 relays powering lights then 3 lights are 120v. AFAIK, 120v pool lights can be up to 500w so: 3x500 + 300 (transformer 1) + 100 (transformer 2) is sill ok on a 20a circuit but doesn't leave much headroom so what I would do is move all the lights to the single 20a gfci breaker. In doing this make sure you tie all of the neutrals (should be 5) to the load side neutral on the gfci breaker.

Boost Rite LA-MS05, ½ HP Superflo SF-N1-1/2F/ 340036

on 240v these are rated @5.4amps max each so definitely can put them on the same breaker. Go from the breaker to the booster Relay L1/L2, then jumper from booster Relay L1/L2 to Laminar pump L1/L2.

 

[Ahultin]

I would get 3 of these for the 4 pumps:
Siemens QF220A QF220 Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter, 20 Amp, 2 Pole, 120 Volt, 10,000 AIC, Color https://a.co/d/gYQkonn
Get 1 of these to use for the system transformer and the convenience outlet

Siemens 15/20 Amp Tandem Single-Pole Type QT Circuit Breaker Q1520U - The Home Depot

Siemens offers a wide array of thermal-magnetic circuit breakers that are the key element for overload and short-circuit protection of your homes electrical system. To provide additional protection Siemens

www.homedepot.com

Run the BBQ island feeder to the load side of the convenience gfci
Rewire the speaker system with #12 thwn and run it to the load side of the convenience outlet

Use the existing 20amp gfci single pole to power the 5x light relays

This would leave you the existing 2 full size spaces for future expansion ( not sure if needed in your area but you'd have the room to add 2 pole 20a for a surge supressor)

 

[PoolTime2022]

Made the changes and the pumps are all on GFCI breakers. Will see if this fixes my intermittent tripping issues. Future project will be to take some time to clean up the mess of wires in the box.