Intellicenter with existing Superflo Vs, pre 11/2020

[parkead]

Good morning... I'm installing the Intellicenter with IC60 to my existing system which currently has a Pentair Superflo VS. After reading the documentation and threads here, I totally agree that the instructions are total garbage on how to hook this up.

A couple of questions:

1. my pump was manufactured BEFORE 11/2020, so does this mean I cannot use the 353129Z cable to connect to the Intellicenter for control? I've seen a few write ups that use that cable with the Easytouch system to control various speeds through the relays
2. What is the proper way to wire this pump, directly to the breaker or through the relay - most information I've found on this only indicates how to wire up Intelliflo pumps

Thanks so much!

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

The pump gets constant AC power from a circuit breaker..

Your older SuperFlo VS is controlled by 5 VDC from the pump, that is routed through a series of relays.. Each relay will tell the pump to run a speed that you have set up inside the pump.

The manual is pretty clear about how to wire it up.. Shows a diagram of exactly how to do it. It won't matter if the relays are in an EasyTouch or IntelliCenter or some DIY hack.

Personally, I would rip out the SuperFlo VS and install an IntelliFlo which is designed to run with the IntelliCenter.. You will never be happy with the operation of the IntelliCenter using your SuperFlo VS..

See page 5 Fig 4 of this manual.. https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...rflovs-variable-speed-pump-manual-english.pdf

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[parkead]

P,

The pump gets constant AC power from a circuit breaker..

Your older SuperFlo VS is controlled by 5 VDC from the pump, that is routed through a series of relays.. Each relay will tell the pump to run a speed that you have set up inside the pump.

The manual is pretty clear about how to wire it up.. Shows a diagram of exactly how to do it. It won't matter if the relays are in an EasyTouch or IntelliCenter or some DIY hack.

Personally, I would rip out the SuperFlo VS and install an IntelliFlo which is designed to run with the IntelliCenter.. You will never be happy with the operation of the IntelliCenter using your SuperFlo VS..

See page 5 Fig 4 of this manual.. https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...rflovs-variable-speed-pump-manual-english.pdf

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim, thanks for the reply! I got caught up in the Intellicenter instructions and neglected the Superflo manual. My bad.

I’ll eventually grab the Intelliflo but stuck for now.

What confused me was page 36 here:

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/pentair-pool/residential/manuals/automation/intellicenter/intellicenter-installation-guide.pdf

It doesn’t mention the Superflo so I didn’t know how to wire appropriately with the chlorine generator so they function properly together.

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

In the old days of single speed pumps, the pump filter relay was used to apply power to the pump and the IntelliChlor SWCG, so they were always in sync..

Move forward to the day of the VS pump, and the IntelliFlo gets constant power and is not powered by the pump/filter relay, but the IntelliChlor still is.. This works because the pump/filter relay only closes when the pump is running (or at least supposed to be running) and you are in the Pool or Spa mode. So basically the IntelliFlo and the SWCG are synced together.
If you try to run the IntelliFlo controlled by the pump/filter relay, you will get loss of com failures as well as pump power failures. I am not sure if you will get pump power failures if you control the SuperFlo VS with the pump/filter relay.

Unfortunately, that will NOT be the case with the older SuperFlo VS.
Normally, VS pumps get constant AC power. But in your case, since you will not be using the pump's control panel for scheduling, then it makes more sense to use the Pump/Filter relay to turn control the AC power going to your SuperFlo VS pump.

If this were my pool, I would set up the SuperFlo to run 24/7 at some low RPM, like 1200 or so.. Then whenever the pump/filter relay turned on, the pump would start running at 1200.. Then you would turn on an Aux relay to go to say 1500 and another Aux relay to go to 2000, etc.

I don't see where controlling your SuperFlo VS with the pump/filter relay, would hurt anything, just not how it is normally done. And the good news is.. If it does hurt the pump, it would be an excuse to buy an IntelliFlo.

I know you are looking at dollars signs now, and understand.. But, like I said, you will never be happy with the operation of your system as long as you have the SuperFlo VS..

Feel free to come back later and tell me I am wrong... But you will have to take a number as there are a lot of people ahead of you..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[parkead]

P,

In the old days of single speed pumps, the pump filter relay was used to apply power to the pump and the IntelliChlor SWCG, so they were always in sync..

Move forward to the day of the VS pump, and the IntelliFlo gets constant power and is not powered by the pump/filter relay, but the IntelliChlor still is.. This works because the pump/filter relay only closes when the pump is running (or at least supposed to be running) and you are in the Pool or Spa mode. So basically the IntelliFlo and the SWCG are synced together.
If you try to run the IntelliFlo controlled by the pump/filter relay, you will get loss of com failures as well as pump power failures. I am not sure if you will get pump power failures if you control the SuperFlo VS with the pump/filter relay.

Unfortunately, that will NOT be the case with the older SuperFlo VS.
Normally, VS pumps get constant AC power. But in your case, since you will not be using the pump's control panel for scheduling, then it makes more sense to use the Pump/Filter relay to turn control the AC power going to your SuperFlo VS pump.

If this were my pool, I would set up the SuperFlo to run 24/7 at some low RPM, like 1200 or so.. Then whenever the pump/filter relay turned on, the pump would start running at 1200.. Then you would turn on an Aux relay to go to say 1500 and another Aux relay to go to 2000, etc.

I don't see where controlling your SuperFlo VS with the pump/filter relay, would hurt anything, just not how it is normally done. And the good news is.. If it does hurt the pump, it would be an excuse to buy an IntelliFlo.

I know you are looking at dollars signs now, and understand.. But, like I said, you will never be happy with the operation of your system as long as you have the SuperFlo VS..

Feel free to come back later and tell me I am wrong... But you will have to take a number as there are a lot of people ahead of you..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Wow thanks for that GREAT explanation! That would be a shame if something happened to the Superflo. I’m sure you are not wrong!

If I may ask an additional question. So I wire the breaker to the relay along with the pump and SWCG? Then I use the additional relays and the 353129Z to hook up the additional speeds?

Appreciate your time!

 

[Jimrahbe]

So I wire the breaker to the relay along with the pump and SWCG? Then I use the additional relays and the 353129Z to hook up the additional speeds?

P,

Yes.. At least that is what I would do to start and see how it works..

You will have to program the pump with the speeds you want.. Each relay turns on one of the speeds you program in.. If you turn on two speeds at the same time, the pump will always run the fastest one..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[parkead]

P,

Yes.. At least that is what I would do to start and see how it works..

You will have to program the pump with the speeds you want.. Each relay turns on one of the speeds you program in.. If you turn on two speeds at the same time, the pump will always run the fastest one..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Ok, sounds like a plan to start! In this set up, just to confirm, the pump and the SWCG transformer get wired up to the load?

While I'm on the transformers, on the control transformer, what is the best practice for wiring this? What size breaker, 120, 240?

Thank you!

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

I like to run the control transformer off its own non-GFCI breaker.. I'd use a 15 amp 120 volt breaker, as it will only take up one breaker slot.

I'd run the pump and SWCG off of one 240 volt 20 amp GFCI breaker.. I'd run nothing else off this breaker.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[parkead]

P,

I like to run the control transformer off its own non-GFCI breaker.. I'd use a 15 amp 120 volt breaker, as it will only take up one breaker slot.

I'd run the pump and SWCG off of one 240 volt 20 amp GFCI breaker.. I'd run nothing else off this breaker.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Good news is that I got it all hooked up and it works! The bad news is you were right. I hate the Superflo. So it’s gonna cost me the upgrade!

In the mean time, I have a Hayward HF250 heater that I’d like to hook up to the center. Is there a specific cable for this? I couldn’t find anyplace that really specified.

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

You have to supply the cable yourself.. Normally just a simple two wire cable that connects the "fireman's Switch" in the heater, to the "Gas Heater" connection inside the automation.

Basically the automation just closes or opens the fireman's switch.. You set the heater to on and full hot.. Nothing will happen with the Fireman's switch open. When the automation calls for heat, it closed the fireman's switch and the heater will turn on.. It will stay on until the water temp hits the set point for the temp you want.. When that happens, the automation opens the fireman's switch and the heater will shut off..

Pretty simple really.. I use the same set up to control the temperature of my standalone spa..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[parkead]

P,

You have to supply the cable yourself.. Normally just a simple two wire cable that connects the "fireman's Switch" in the heater, to the "Gas Heater" connection inside the automation.

Basically the automation just closes or opens the fireman's switch.. You set the heater to on and full hot.. Nothing will happen with the Fireman's switch open. When the automation calls for heat, it closed the fireman's switch and the heater will turn on.. It will stay on until the water temp hits the set point for the temp you want.. When that happens, the automation opens the fireman's switch and the heater will shut off..

Pretty simple really.. I use the same set up to control the temperature of my standalone spa..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hey Jim! Thanks again, I got it ALL hooked up this weekend with your excellent guidance.

One thing that I've noticed I thought I'd run by you is that for the last 2 nights I wake up and the pump has stopped. I have to start it. I've looked and there doesn't seem to be any schedule or anything like that. Do you know offhand if there is some normal shut down? I'd like to run the pump 24/7...

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

I assume you are running the SuperFlo VS??? Is that correct? Are you using the IntelliCenter to change speeds?

The first thing to do is figure out what is shutting off.. Is the pump shutting itself off or is the IntelliCenter shutting off the pump?

If you have the pump's power going through the IntelliCenter's pump/filter relay, then I would suspect the IntelliCenter. Keep in mind the pump/filter relay is only closed with in the Pool or Spa mode and the pump is supposed to be running..

Show me what your IntelliCenter's schedule looks like and how you have the SuperFlo VS set up to run 24/7?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[parkead]

P,

I assume you are running the SuperFlo VS??? Is that correct? Are you using the IntelliCenter to change speeds?

The first thing to do is figure out what is shutting off.. Is the pump shutting itself off or is the IntelliCenter shutting off the pump?

If you have the pump's power going through the IntelliCenter's pump/filter relay, then I would suspect the IntelliCenter. Keep in mind the pump/filter relay is only closed with in the Pool or Spa mode and the pump is supposed to be running..

Show me what your IntelliCenter's schedule looks like and how you have the SuperFlo VS set up to run 24/7?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Well I'm embarrassed to say, it was the egg timer. :/ I wasn't familiar with it, but found it!

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

Happens a lot... Glad you got it working again..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Candurin]

P,

You have to supply the cable yourself.. Normally just a simple two wire cable that connects the "fireman's Switch" in the heater, to the "Gas Heater" connection inside the automation.

Basically the automation just closes or opens the fireman's switch.. You set the heater to on and full hot.. Nothing will happen with the Fireman's switch open. When the automation calls for heat, it closed the fireman's switch and the heater will turn on.. It will stay on until the water temp hits the set point for the temp you want.. When that happens, the automation opens the fireman's switch and the heater will shut off..

Pretty simple really.. I use the same set up to control the temperature of my standalone spa..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Just wanted to echo this as Jim talked me through my "re-wire". PB's electrician wired my heater incorrectly and now works perfectly through the IntelliCenter.