IntelliCenter Limitations? - No Solar?: Heat Pump (H/C), Gas & Solar (FPH)?

[sanmarcospool]

Hello All,

First, thank you for all the resources on this forum it has been a giant help.

I have IntelliCenter and I’m about to install a solar loop for my FPH (free pool heaters - see Hotspot Energy FPH - HVAC x Pool Water heat exchanger). I think I’m running up against a limitation with IntelliCenter. I currently have:

1x Mastertemp 400 gas heater
1x Ultratemp 140 heat / cool heater pump
1x proposed solar loop for my FPHs (image attached)

When I try to add solar to my current install (gas and heat pump) I can’t because the option is greyed out. Is there something I’m missing here? Any recommendations from anyone who has attempted this?

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[ajw22]

Do you have a Solar Temperature Sensor or a 10K resistor installed?

 

[sanmarcospool]

I have the solar sensor installed right now.

Should that part matter? It’s just sensing resistance either way, correct?

 

[ajw22]

I have the solar sensor installed right now.

Was it installed when SOLAR was greyed out?

Should that part matter? It’s just sensing resistance either way, correct?

Is SOLAR still greyed out?

 

[sanmarcospool]

Yes, I believe it was installed before it was greyed out. It seems like it greyed out after the heat pump was installed.

Yes, solar is still greyed out.

Any thoughts to test it out?

 

[Dirk]

I think the clue is somewhere in these paragraphs, from the IntelliCenter owner manual, pages 72-73:

Add Heater: Tap Add Heater to add
a new heater type. Up to three heaters can be assigned. Note: Only one gas heater for each body of water. For shared equipment; one gas heater (pool/spa).

and

Add Heaters: IntelliCenter® Control System supports the following heater configurations: Gas Heater, Solar Heater, Heat Pump, UltraTemp, MasterTemp, Max-E-Therm, Hybrid, Gas Heater + Solar Heater (Solar Preferred), Gas Heater + Heat Pump (Solar Preferred), Gas Heater + UltraTemp/Hybrid) (UltraTemp/Hybrid Preferred).

There are also some other paragraphs on those pages that might be of help. That 2nd paragraph seems to contradict the 1st. That 1st paragraphs claims you can use three heaters, but in the 2nd paragraph they don't list a configuration that supports three?

Sorry, not much help. Maybe try Pentair tech support? If you don't get a good answer, hang up and call back to get someone else on the line. Keep trying until you stumble into someone that knows the answer. You'd be surprised how often that'll work if at first you get someone that doesn't know what's what.

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/automation/intellicenter/manuals---user-docs/intellicenter-users-guide.pdf

 

[ajw22]

I would try deleting the Heat Pump.

Then add the Solar and see if it then lets you then add the HP as the third heater.

I don’t remember anyone else here having all three types of heaters on their IntelliCenter.

 

[Ahultin]

Looking at the web interface, I currently have solar and an rs485 connected mastertemp and it will allow me to add one more "hybrid". Are your mastertemp and ultratemp on the rs485 bus?

 

[sanmarcospool]

Hey guys, thanks for helping me try to figure this out. I appreciate the support.

Dirk, yeah the wording is unclear but I have a bad feeling after seeing the paragraph about possible configurations. I’m thinking paragraph 2 is all the permutations of heater allowed. I reached out to Pentair and they said IntelliCenter could handle it originally (only easytouch had issues). However, I’m thinking it may not and the person I spoke with might have not been a complete expert. It troubles me that as complex as IntelliCenter can be and how robust it is that it might not handle all three heaters given the types of installs it’s used for (complex ones). I have heard that if you hook up the ultratemp as a gas then you can add solar but I will lose the cooling ability. It’s disappointing to pay for the cooling feature and not have it available if you follow me.

I’m using Hotspot Energy’s Free Pool Heaters (2x) as part of my solar loop by putting a diverter on my water feature pump. It pulls from the dedicated water feature suction and returns to my lower drains (deep heat) and pool nozzles.

AJW22, I’ll try deleting it an adding it and then adding the ultratemp (heat pump) last. Yeah, I’m special - go figure. It’s my FPH configuration that’s throwing a wrench into everything. However, I’m surprised this system can’t support three heaters like this.

Ahultin, I believe they are rs485 but the issue comes with having three heaters: mastertemp 400, ultratemp 140 h/c (heat pump) and solar (using solar as a proxy for my FPH). I get the same “hybrid” option as you with my heat pump. I’m guessing Pentair uses the solar and heat pump setups as the same thing.

 

[Ahultin]

Based on your screenshots, the ultratemp is on the rs485 bus but the mastertemp is not. Is the mastertemp the newer one with the 6 button touchpad?

 

[ajw22]

Gas Heater means it is controlled by the Fireman’s Switch.

Mastertemp means it is controlled by RS-485

The heater below is controlled by the Fireman’s Switch.

 

[sanmarcospool]

Gotcha. Here’s the Mastertemp 400 version I have. Any headaches hooking it up to RS485? I’ve seen a couple threads with some back and forth of can it be hooked up / different boards etc. See photos attached. Any walkthrough so I can try to hook it up before my pool plumber can?

FYI my Pentair rep is sending out a Pentair engineer to help assist as well - we’ll see how this goes.

 

[ajw22]

See pages 36-38 in https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...p/manual/Manual-MasterTemp-472592-English.pdf

Get a 4 wire #22 gauge cable of which you will use 3 wires that can reach from the heater to the IntelliCenter. Or you can use a cat5 cable with each pair twisted together.

Open up the heater and disconnect the Fireman’s switch wire and wire nut the heater wires back together.

Flip over the top panel to access the PCB and connect the 3 wires to J4 on the PCB.

Then go to the IntelliCenter and disconnect the wire at the GAS HTR connector and connect the RS-485 cable to one of the COMM ports.

Power up the IntelliCenter and delete the GAS Heater and add MASTERTEMP.

Heater should now work under RS-485 and you will get diagnostic messages from the heater at the IntelliCenter.

 

[Dirk]

Dirk, yeah the wording is unclear but I have a bad feeling after seeing the paragraph about possible configurations. I’m thinking paragraph 2 is all the permutations of heater allowed. I reached out to Pentair and they said IntelliCenter could handle it originally (only easytouch had issues). However, I’m thinking it may not and the person I spoke with might have not been a complete expert. It troubles me that as complex as IntelliCenter can be and how robust it is that it might not handle all three heaters given the types of installs it’s used for (complex ones). I have heard that if you hook up the ultratemp as a gas then you can add solar but I will lose the cooling ability. It’s disappointing to pay for the cooling feature and not have it available if you follow me.

It would not be the first time Pentair's brochures and manuals suggested how things work, ahead of their engineers actually getting them to work that way. I think IntelliValve owners are still waiting for those to do what Pentair says they can.

My EasyTouch's ScreenLogic interface reports local weather conditions in a useful way. Problem is, there is no telling what local it is, as it is certainly not mine! (It can't even get the names of what the next five days are going to be correct!!) And the error-reporting-via-email feature has never worked, and never will.

Point being, just be aware that you could be doing every thing right, and "by the book," and it just might not be working (yet?). The trick is finding that one Pentair tech support guy that knows what's what, and is willing to divulge the bad news.

Good luck though, maybe it's something simple. Keep us posted.