Installers in the industry - Aqualink compatibility with *new* Pentair Pumps

[dfwnoob]

I'm hoping that some of our friends who work in the industry can help out here. Given the absolutely astronomical and unprecedented price of chlorine, I'm at the point where the only thing I can do is to do is move to a SWCG. However, given that all I have is an aging and power hungry single speed 2 HP pump, a SWCG only makes economical sense when paired with a VS pump. This brings me to a predicament thanks to the fine, friendly folks at Fluidra who refuse to sell me a Jandy pump that I know would "just work" with my Aqualink setup. That means I'm either stuck buying warranty-less greymarket Jandy pumps of dubious origin on eBay/Craigslist or buying a pump from another vendor, like Pentair. I really need to know if the Pentair pumps will talk to and work happily with the Aqualink via RS-485. There was a time where they DID work well together, but based on reports, that seems to have ended sometime around the Great Pool Building Frenzy of 2020 (which I'm sure had absolutely nothing to do with greed, of course).

I want the automation to be able to adjust speed automatically when appropriate (e.g. ramp up when running the spa) without any of my own intervention. I also don't want to do this with relays; RS-485 is what I'm looking for. Can anyone confirm if the newer Pentair pumps still work 100% with Aqualink (firmware version T.2)?

 

[Newdude]

Another option is that a 4X unit (60k) would only need to run about 6 hours to produce enough daily FC in the peak season, and less in the 'warm' or cooler months.

You could keep your existing setup how it is and just use the SWG separately. Even with the added SWG cost by oversizing, you'd still be far cheaper overall by not replacing the pump also.

Or. Bite the bullet and get a Jandy pump and SWG from a dealer.

Or. Or. Use this as your excuse to ditch the IAqualink too, because you aren't going to want to be married to it for the next 10-15 years.

 

[dfwnoob]

My pump already runs about 6 hours a day in the summer, I didn't know the 60K unit would be making enough in that time! That's great to know! Is there a formula you used to figure that out?

Trust me, I have already strongly considered throwing all of the Aqualink automation in the trash due to Jandy's vendor lock-in and refusal to sell parts. But all of the wires in the panel were cut to length to fit the dimensions of the Aqualink box and I really haven't wanted to be stuck rewiring stuff, especially with copper costs. The IntelliCenter manual shows a Power Center "without sub-panel" box which would be great and I think it would actually be dimensionally similar enough to work with everything I have, but it doesn't appear Pentair makes it anymore. At least, the SKUs I see 522044 (Power Center w/o IntelliChlor transformer) and 522042 (Power Center w/ IntelliChlor transformer) do not appear to be in stock anywhere. And even if I could find one, the prices on being forced to do it a la carte vastly exceed the Load Center "kits". Why Pentair doesn't sell a kit for the non-subpanel Power Centers is beyond me.

Either way, both of those are food for thought.

 

[Newdude]

That's great to know! Is there a formula you used to figure that out?

A 'properly sized' unit (15k SWG to 15K gallons) will need to run 24/7 in the peak season. A 2X unit will.produce twice the FC in the same time, needing about 12 hours of runtime a day

3X..... 8 hrs
4X..... 6 hrs.

It's not perfect and a particularly hot summer may make you go to 8 hours with a 4X, but that's still WAY better on the electric bill than 24 hours. Discount salt pool has a SWG comparison Chart listing everybody's output and you can use that info in poolmath to see how they'd produce for you.

Word of caution, DSP is Circupool's sales division, no kidding they rate their own head and shoulders above the rest. But. Even after some manufacturers inflation, they are still great units. (I'm still a Pentair guy tho)

 

[dfwnoob]

Wow, in hindsight that seems really obvious to figure out, not sure why I didn't pick up on that. LOL. Thank you!

 

[Newdude]

So back to the original thought of just a stand alone SWG, it should get between 2 and 6 weeks per adjustment as the daily FC loss increases/decreases. Sure it's fun to play with it on the phone, but it's really not needed. We had a stupid hot year this year that was 8 degrees above normal. The SWG stayed at 60% run time from June until the end of September. My whole season needed no adjustments, albeit a shorter one than yours. But even if I have to walk over there and press 1 button, once a month, I can summom the strength to find a way to deal with it the manual way.

 

[ajw22]

Replacing an Aqualink with an IntelliCenter was a one day job.

Splicing wires to fit the higher IC box is not a problem.

See my thread at….

Replacing an Aqualink with an IntelliCenter

This thread is for me to work out what I do in upgrading my 20 year old pool equipment. Jandy RS8 automation, 1.5HP SS Pentair pump, Pentair Mastertemp 400 NG heater, IC40 SWG, typical pool/spa combo with spa spillover, Pentair JVA actuators on suctions & return Jandy valves, 1HP pump for spa...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

Standalone SWG is not optimum when you have a spa.

You want the automation to change the SWG output % when in SPA mode.

The right answer for @dfwnoob is an IC with an IntelliFlo pump and an IC60 working together as nature intended.

 

[Newdude]

The right answer for @dfwnoob is an IC with an IntelliFlo pump and an IC60 working together as nature intended.

So long as it's you spending his money and not me, I concur

 

[ajw22]

So long as it's you spending his money and not me, I concur

You both will thank me after a year of living with it.

 

[MSchutzer]

I purchased my Jandy system from TCPoolEquipment.com. The are an online retailer with a busy storefront in southern California. Like any Jandy dealer they will not sell you stuff online, this only means that you have to call them on the phone to place an order.

A couple of years ago I purchased an entire RS8-PS system with all the actuators and installed it myself. The cost was about a third of what I would have paid to have the same system installed from an authorized installer. Yes I don't have a warranty, but I could buy the system over a couple of times for the price the warranty would have cost me.

In regards to the newer Pentair pumps talking to the Jandy RS system I would expect them to work. I know the Intellifo pumps work, I haven't heard whether the Intelliflo 3 pumps work or not, but I doubt that Pentair changed their RS-485 protocols.

In playing with my Vgreen 165 pump to get it to talk directly to a RS system I found that all three of the pump manufacturers use the same basic commands to the motor. These commands are set demand (motor speed), execute, status, and a couple other commands. The protocols are a bit different with each command coded differently and different checksums, but in the end they are all talking to motors made by Regal Rexnard (formerly Century motor company).

 

[HermanTX]

I'm hoping that some of our friends who work in the industry can help out here. Given the absolutely astronomical and unprecedented price of chlorine, I'm at the point where the only thing I can do is to do is move to a SWCG. However, given that all I have is an aging and power hungry single speed 2 HP pump, a SWCG only makes economical sense when paired with a VS pump. This brings me to a predicament thanks to the fine, friendly folks at Fluidra who refuse to sell me a Jandy pump that I know would "just work" with my Aqualink setup. That means I'm either stuck buying warranty-less greymarket Jandy pumps of dubious origin on eBay/Craigslist or buying a pump from another vendor, like Pentair. I really need to know if the Pentair pumps will talk to and work happily with the Aqualink via RS-485. There was a time where they DID work well together, but based on reports, that seems to have ended sometime around the Great Pool Building Frenzy of 2020 (which I'm sure had absolutely nothing to do with greed, of course).

I want the automation to be able to adjust speed automatically when appropriate (e.g. ramp up when running the spa) without any of my own intervention. I also don't want to do this with relays; RS-485 is what I'm looking for. Can anyone confirm if the newer Pentair pumps still work 100% with Aqualink (firmware version T.2)?

I know you had lots of recommendations already but wanted to let you know what I did.
I have the Jandy RS Automation T2 rev.
I purchased a Jandy IntelliFlo VSF pump (011056) - this is not the newest IntelliFlo3 pump, however, I checked at Polytec Pools and they still have inventory of this 011056 pump.
I then purchased the AquaPure 1400 kit (includes Power System & SWCG model 1400), from Polytec Pools. I installed it myself.
On my automation, both App and PC access, I can set schedules for total of 8 different speeds for the pump and any schedule.
I can set SWCG output for both Spa and Pool.
The pump is connected via a RS485 cable to the main RS system.
The AquaPure power unit is also connected via a RS485 cable to the main RS system.
It all works fine. I have similar size pool and ran the latter part of summer at 35% output for 21 hours a day with 1550 rpm on pump.
The only downside with the VSF pump is that you have to run it in VS mode (rpm) only (not in flow mode- gpm). I installed a VisFlo meter so I can get a good estimate of flow at various rpms of pump.
I did all of this in stages over a course of 20 months. So the whole system as described above has been operating for just over 7 months. The pump with the AquaLink has been running for over a year as I only transitioned to a SWCG last summer.

Note - I did debate throwing out the AquaLink and converting to the IntelliCenter after several discussions with @ajw22 . I already had the pump installed and it was working with the Jandy RS Automation. I wanted to go to a SWCG and I debated to stay with Jandy and just purchase the AquaPure SWCG or go with the IntelliCenter and then also purchase the IC SWCG. I opted for the former and that is where I am today. Maybe in 5 years I do something different!!!!

 

[dfwnoob]

Thanks for confirming the 011056 pump works, @HermanTX! From reading older threads, I did know about the Aqualink not being able to decipher flow rate, but I was OK with just RPM. You did effectively the same thing I've been planning for.

I wish the AquaPure SWG was bigger, but at least I'm actually able to BUY that hardware, and it works with RS-485, so I'll live with it. At the end of the day, spending $2500+ for IntelliCenter automation nets me absolutely nothing over the current ALRS setup outside of playing nicely with Pentair hardware, but I WAS willing to entertain it if I had no option for a pump. The 056 pump is still very easy to get ahold of and I'll probably pick one up very soon here. Much appreciated!

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks for confirming the 011056 pump works, @HermanTX! From reading older threads, I did know about the Aqualink not being able to decipher flow rate, but I was OK with just RPM. You did effectively the same thing I've been planning for.

I wish the AquaPure SWG was bigger, but at least I'm actually able to BUY that hardware, and it works with RS-485, so I'll live with it. At the end of the day, spending $2500+ for IntelliCenter automation nets me absolutely nothing over the current ALRS setup outside of playing nicely with Pentair hardware, but I WAS willing to entertain it if I had no option for a pump. The 056 pump is still very easy to get ahold of and I'll probably pick one up very soon here. Much appreciated!

Like I said in my earlier post. I have about the same size pool and the AP1400 SWCG is quite adequate for that size pool as I have not had to put it above 50% output to get my desired FC ppm. Good luck with the installation.
This is what I purchased at Polytec

Jandy AquaPure Complete System with 14 Blade Cell PLC1400