Infinity Pool Control

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L

LouL

0
Sep 4, 2018
10
Merritt Island
I'm looking for a solution to trigger a Pentair EasyTouch 8P-connected VSF pump turn-on when my infinity pool tank (basin) reaches a set high point. Current plan is to install a Zodiac/Jandy Levolor II K2000 hi/low water sensor controller. BUT, of course Jandy and Pentair products don't work together nice!!!

What I'm trying to do is: (assuming my infinity edge pump is off), I need to get the pump to turn on automatically for a set time when 2-3 people enter the pool. This displaces 60-100 gals, which raises the water in my submerged tank ~4 inches. Again, I'm trying to start an EasyTouch function based on a 'high water' sensor indication. (I'm not dealing with a low water level turn-on... we've go that working.)

In my current partially implemented solution, the Levolor K2000 controller sends a 24V signal (normally for a pump relay) when water reaches it's high sensor. The controller has smart features to lock-in the 24V turn-on for 5, 10, 30 etc so splashes or waves don't inadvertently turn-on the pump.

But in my case the VSF pump is controlled by a single-body EasyTouch 8p panel. It sends turn-on and speed control functions to the VSF pump via an RS232 interface.... there's no way to send an external 24V relay signal to the pump. Also, the EasyTouch 8P doesn't have a clear-cut input 'port' to take an external signal (particularly from a non-Pentair brand). And there is no Pentair high water sensor system out there - to my and my P/B's knowledge.

Any advice, tricks, or equipment options would be appreciated!!!
 
I think the IntelliLevel has the capability

www.pentair.com

IntelliLevel™ Automatic Water Leveling System

The best water level for new construction with pool automation. With the IntelliLevel Water Leveling Monitor’s multi-sensing technology, your pool’s water level stays at just right amount, no more overflowing or wasting water.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

A lot of people experience the same issue you're having with infinity edges. With a VS pump they run the edge 24/7 at a very low speed or use a small single speed pump that can be triggered by a relay
 
Hey B,

Thanks for your idea... I saw that a while back, but didn't download the manual. Still (and correct me if I'm wrong), the basic function for the IntelliLevel is to control an auto re-fill (solenoid). If your pool overflows due to rainfall, for instance, does it have a separate control output that would open a dump valve?!?

The Levolor has a hi-sensor and the ability to turn on a signal given a high water situation. That's what we're trying to implement - since we're already committed to the Pentair EasyTouch and VSF pump!!!
 
External Control with IntelliComm® Communication Center
The IntelliFlo® pump can be remotely controlled by the Pentair Water Pool and Spa IntelliComm Communication Center using the RS-485 communications cable.

The IntelliComm provides four pairs
of input terminal connections. These inputs are actuated by either 15 - 240 VAC or 15 - 100 VDC.

Using the device’s inputs, the programmed IntelliFlo® pump speeds can be controlled.
Click to expand...

If you have a 24 volt dc source, you can power the pump from a relay in Easytouch. Just power the relay coil directly from the external power supply. That would give you on/off ability only.

Another possibility is to assign the pump to a "Solar" circuit and use a single pole double throw relay to connect the solar temperature sensor port to a 5k or 15k ohm resistor. When going through the 15k ohm resistor, it reads the solar temperature as 60 degrees and the pump stays off. When the relay is switched, the 5k ohm resistor is read as 106 degrees and the pump turns on.
 
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bdavis466 said:
You should have an overflow on the basin correct?
Click to expand...
Actually no - I'll explain later, below.

I was trying to see if I over looked a feature of the IntelliLevel when reading the manual this am. I assumed it was for basic pool level control - with only a 'low water' set point. Didn't see whether it had a high-water level setting with a separate output signal for a different control function.

And, no we actually do not have an overflow for our infinity 'basin.' We actually don't have a basin at the back of our infinity edge. Due to no space behind the pool's infinity edge (pool is literally at the river's edge). We have a catch trough behind the edge that gravity feeds to an underground surge tank. The tank had to be placed so deep that an overflow would be below grade to our lot's low point!

So we either need a sump pump for rain overflow, or use the high sensor function on the Levelor II K2000 to turn on the pump to drain out excess water. (Sounds complicated but really should be a problem - except getting the EasyTouch to recognize an 'external' 24 V signal as a pump & auto valve configuration setting.)
 
JamesW said:
If you have a 24 volt dc source, you can power the pump from a relay in Easytouch. Just power the relay coil directly from the external power supply. That would give you on/off ability only.

Another possibility is to assign the pump to a "Solar" circuit and use a single pole double throw relay to connect the solar temperature sensor port to a 5k or 15k ohm resistor. When going through the 15k ohm resistor, it reads the solar temperature as 60 degrees and the pump stays off. When the relay is switched, the 5k ohm resistor is read as 106 degrees and the pump turns on.
Click to expand...

Hi James,
Was your pasted-in 'intelliFlow & IntelliComm Center' section related to how to set up my EasyTouch using a Solar circuit?

Please clarify. My pool electrician made some comment about using the solar thermistor input(s) in some way to initiate an EasyTouch program to turn-on or set the VSF pump flowrate and IntelliValve valve settings when the Jandy Levelor sends a 24V high sensor signal. But he didn't know what resistance would be needed for turning on 'Solar mode.'

Are we talking about the same solution approach? I'm far from understanding electronics, is your solution as simple as putting a 5k ohm resistor on our 24 VDC signal wired to the thermistor contacts?!? That will read as 106 degrees and turn on 'Solar mode'? When our signal shuts off... Solar mode turns off???
 
Solar uses a 10k thermistor mounted on the roof and measures the temperature available on the roof.

A 10k thermistor changes resistance based on the temperature. See chart.


If the solar temperature is above the water temperature and the water temperature is below the set point, the solar circuit should be activated.

So, you can use a resistor to trick the sensor into reading a specific temperature.

My thought is to get a simple single pole double throw relay and wire it so that the temperature sensor goes through the 5k or 15k resistor.

The relay should have a normally open and normally closed position. You would put the 5k thermistor on the normally open position and the 15k thermistor on the normally closed position.

You would get a relay that's activated by the available 24 volt power signal.

When not powered, the reading is 15k ohms, which corresponds to 60 degrees Fahrenheit. When 24 volts is applied to the coil of the relay, the relay switches from 15k to 5k, which is interpreted as 106 degrees Fahrenheit.

So, the external 24 volt dc power just activates the relay that selects which resistor the temperature sensor connects to.

I'm not 100% sure that this will work, but I suspect that it probably will.

The intellicom is a separate way that you can control the pump using an external signal. The Intellicom receives an external signal and then communicates to the Intelliflo to turn on.
 
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James,

Thanks for the simple explanation...seems like a straight-forward approach that my pool electrician can readily handle.

I, however, am totally new to pool automation, and the EasyTouch 'user manual' reads like my first computer class that I barely passed!!!

Help me with 'Solar Mode:'

TURN-ON / TURN-OFF
- I see how your approach will activate the Solar mode circuit. But, when my hi sensor 24 VDC signal turns 'off' (0 VDC), can I assume that solar mode temperature conditions will go 'false,' (read 60 deg F) and 'deactivate' the solar circuit?
- When solar mode deactivates, does the EasyTouch return to previous mode, or whatever 'timer' program is suppose to be running at that time?

PUMP SETTINGS:
- When my hi sensor sends the 24 VDC signal, we'll need to turn-on and set the VSF pump to a particular flowrate to 'drain' excess water from my underground surge tank. I saw a response from JimRahbe to another EasyTouch/Solar question about setting VS pump speed - so I assume I can set VSF flowrate in similar fashion?!?! Or, other programming suggestion?
​
Using the little 3" display, you should still be able to see "Solar" show up in in the list of active circuits under the pump menu..​
Menu, Settings, IntelliFlo, Pump #1, Speeds (1 thru 8) Move to one that has "None" listed as the Circuit name.. change it to "Solar" and add the speed you want.​
These are special "circuits" and do not show up on the regular circuit page, only on the pump page...​
Thanks,​
Jim R.​
Click to expand...
​
AUTOMATED VALUE SETTINGS:
- I have 5 automated valves for fancy waterfall features, pool vacuum and infinity tank vs. main drain draw. When the hi-sensor in the tank gets wet, and 'solar mode' activates, I may need to have all 5 valves to reset to certain positions. As a minimum, the surge tank drain valve will need to open, and suction side valves for the infinity tank vs main drain will need to be at the correct setting. This is the one issue I can't decipher from the EasyTouch manual.. can multiple valve commands be issued or just 1 or 2 when 'solar mode' activates?

Thanks
​
 
hey JamesW,

Thanks for your help... we've implemented your hardware plan - and it works great in 'triggering' solar mode after the Jandy Levolor hi sensor gets wet, and turns off solar mode after water recedes below the hi sensor.

BUT, I didn't mention, I need two valves to open when this happens. I think it maybe a limitation with programing 'Solar Mode.' The surge tank 'overflow valve' can and will be dedicated to solar mode. But I need the suction side 'infinity tank' intake valve to also move at the same time the hi sensor activates. This latter auto valve is also used as a feature in other functions.

RECALL my set-up: We have an infinity edge with a catch trough behind the edge. The trough gravity feeds to an underground surge tank. The tank had to be placed so deep that an overflow is well below grade of our lot's lowest point!​
​
On the suction side we have an auto valve that controls main vs infinity tank mixing. I wanted to be able to turn off the edge and not waste water.​
​
On the return side we have a auto return valve, call it 'overflow,' that's activated by the Levelor (and the Solar mode set-up) for removing excess rain water, etc.​
​
If the 'main vs surge tank' suction valve is set on 'main' then the overall water level in the pool goes down, while the water in the surge tank remains the same... ie, the Levolor sensor hi-sensor stays wet (and the system keeps dumping water from the pool body).​

Is there a way 'solar mode' can activate two valves at the same time, including one which can be used for other functions???
 

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There is a connection for a solar booster pump relay that you can use. It puts out 24 volts dc to activate a relay. You can use the two speed relay to activate the valves. You would have to supply the valve power and the relay would switch the power to reverse the valves.

For example, if you used 2 Jandy valves and 2 Jandy valve actuators, you would need to supply 24 VAC with one leg being common and the other leg being switched by the two speed relay to actuate the valve. The valves require 0.75 amps.

So, you would need a power supply that would provide 24 volts AC and be rated at better than 1.5 amps to actuate both valves at the same time.

By using the two speed relay, you can operate as many valves as you want at the same time. You just have to supply the transformer that will provide the necessary 24 volts ac at the required amperage.

There is also a connection for a solar valve actuator that can actuate a valve. It's 24 volts AC. I would not try to actuate two valves on the single connection because it would probably exceed the current limit of the supply.

Using 1 or both of these should allow you to do what you need.

Using one of the valves for other functions complicates things. You don't want to have the control voltages conflict. You should be able to figure out a way to do this electronically through relays or you can do a separate valve on a different controller.
 
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Another way to do the resistors to trigger the temperature is to put the resistors in parallel.

The 15k ohm resistor would always be in the circuit and you would use a single pole single throw relay and add a 7.5k ohm resistor in parallel.

A 15k ohm resistor and a 7.5k ohm resistor in parallel will read as 5k ohm.

Basically the same thing, but possibly better because the reading will look more stable to the system.
 
The EasyTouch system can drive two auxiliary valve actuators for applications such as solar heating and water features. Assign which circuits that will activate valves A and B. Auxiliary valve actuators can be controlled by any AUX circuit. Valve A is automatically assigned to solar if “Solar” is enabled in the “Solar” menu. Tip: Use a “Feature Circuit” to control a valve actuator (see page 17).

Feature Circuits Menu There are eight (8) “Feature Circuits” that can be used to control IntelliFlo pump speeds or valves actuators for a spa spillway. Unlike an auxiliary relay circuit, a “Feature” circuit does not connect directly to a relay. “Feature” are turned on and off from the control panel “Feature” circuit menu.

Settings Menu: Valves
This feature lets you assign a circuit to Valve A or B. The EasyTouch system can drive two auxiliary valve actuators (A and B) for applications such as solar heating and water features. By assigning AUX circuits to control valve actuators, you can conserve auxiliary circuits for high voltage relays for controlling pumps and lights. Valve A: Resides on the EasyTouch motherboard. If solar heating is setup and is not configured as a heat pump, then Valve A is dedicated for controlling the solar heating valve actuator. Solar is enabled in the “Solar” menu. The Valve A selection will display “USED SOLAR.” Valve B: Resides on the EasyTouch motherboard. Can be configured to be controlled by any circuit.

Click to expand...

So, this shows that you can install two auxiliary valve actuators to control two valves.
 
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