In floor pool cleaner & bubbles

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seandb

Member
Jul 31, 2024
6
Temecula California
Hey all,

Been a long time viewer and have finally came across something I couldn't find an answer to and needed to create an account.

I have an in floor cleaning system and am getting A LOT of bubbles on the return connected to my leaf canister. I'm pretty sure I ruled out the cleaner and the pump side plumbing. Plus, this is a huge amount of bubbles.

When I look into my leaf canister, I notice a transition union type attachment. When I unscrew it, there is a small hole at the top that is discolored in a way that doesn't seem like it was there before.

When I screwed it back in and fired up the pump, I noticed that when I plug this hole with my finger, the lead canister fills with water like it's supposed to and the bubbles stop. If I let go of the hole, the water drains and the bubbles start again.

I'm not a pool expert but have been taking care of my pool for 10+ years. Hoping you guys can help confirm this is in fact my issue.

If it is, is this a standard piece I can get at any hardware store?

Thanks in advance.

Pictures below for reference.
(Notice the massive amount of bubbles in the pic with the pool in it)
 

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Who is the manufacturer of the IFCS?
If you aren't sure, look on the water distribution valve or on the popups.
Short of that, post a picture or two of the water distribution valve.

I think it's a Paramount In Deck Debris Canister and you may have a Paramount PCC-2000 IFCS.
Here is an old thread on TFP - do not post to it as it is wat too old.

Paramount PCC Canister filling with air

This is my first post so I apologize in advance for mistakes. I have a Paramount PCC in-floor cleaning system where the in deck canister fills with air to the point the pump basket gets a significant amount of air and causes the loud clanking noise. The forum has been a great resource and I have...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

The debris canister is on page 13 of this manual. The rest of the manual may help with overall system operation.
 
Thanks @proavia - some follow-up details after some more digging.

My system is an old Caretaker 5 Port, this is the model (I just repaired this assembly last year) - Caretaker 5 Port Water Valve Upper Housing Assembly 4-9-2000

I reached out to Lasco, the manufacturer of the fitting I'm holding in my hand in the above pic to get more information on it. They told me they do not have any drilled holes/taps in their plugs and whoever installed my pool equipment likely drilled into it to accept some type of external fitting.

My hypothesis: If you see the picture below, I point out where the piece is installed inside of the canister. The other arrow is indicating the direction of the water flow. This water flow is pushing water into the pipe across from it, which is a return to my pool. My assumption is there was probably some type of regulator affixed to the drilled hole to still push water through the return, but at a slower rate. The slower rate would allow the canister to remain filled, ensuring air is not being pushed through the return.

Does this sound like a plausible hypothesis? If so, what type of fitting was possibly used to accomplish this? I bought this house 10 years ago but the pool is almost 25 years old. I have no idea who built the pool and information on IFCS's is scarce when it comes to nuanced issues like this.

Thanks again in advance.
 

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Hey Sean, I am having a real tough time (as is probably @proavia) trying to decipher what is going on here. Obviously the Lasco fitting (with the cap/hole) is a home brew solution to an unknown problem and has no official role in the paramount debris canister. I suspect it was put there to limit the flow through the debris container because the pump was losing prime.

I can’t tell from the pictures…is there a pvc pipe, or a plugged hole, at the bottom of the debris canister (below those extended pipes and the “PVC contraption”)? That is where the PVC suction line would normally feed to the pump, but from your description of what occurs when you manually plug that small cap hole, it sounds like the pump is drawing some water through that tiny cap hole you are covering up. That would make the “normal operating” water flow opposite to what you describe. But that would also be inconsistent with pictures I have seen of “relatively current” paramount debris containers. Don’t know if yours is an older model than the DDR.

Also, I have no clue how your debris basket/netting fits into this system with that PVC contraption in place. Is there a debris basket? Does the debris container collect any debris or is it non-functional at this point? IFCSs are normally designed to allow full suction through the debris container so that larger debris from the pool floor can be removed. This debris canister doesn’t seem functional to me, but I don’t know what is under those pipes and/or how a basket fits into it.

Can you show a few pictures of your pad/ifcs system? There should be the equivalent of a 3-way valve there that selects between this debris container and the skimmer to the pump’s input. I suspect it is set to pull “almost all” water from the skimmer.

There should be no pool returns connected to this debris container at all. There is, however the possibility of an equalizer line (named by paramount) that keeps water above the debris container’s clear inside lid to prevent air leaks into the bottom part of the canister. That “equalizer line” is what I suspect you are seeing bubbles exit from into your pool. Is that possible?

Do you have air bubbles in your pump basket consistently? Does it ever lose prime? I suspect your debris container’s clear lid is leaking air.

Do you have a single main drain, or a side “safety drain” as well? Just one skimmer?

Can you please fill out your signature with all equipment and post more pictures of your pad? Thanks.
 
I'm wondering if that fitting with the hole in it creates a vortex to help pull water thru the canister.
Post pics of the equipment pad from a few different angels.
Also post a pic of the inside of the canister with the pump off and no water moving into or thru the canister.
 
This is a Caretaker Leaf Trapper system, it works on the Venturi principle, As water is directed from the return side of the filter set, it is reduced through the fitting your holding and creates suction from the center drain in the bottom of the pool. If your seeing air coming out the side it may be that the lid is not seated properly or the o ring is worn .https://www.infloorpoolparts.com/
 
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This is all really helpful, thank you all.

After lots of research, I agree the fitting with the hole drilled is a home built solution for the venturi system to function. I don't think that's actually the issue after all

I believe the issue is what @kadavis is mentioning. When I apply a good amount of pressure down into the lid with everything running, the air bubbles almost stop entirely. The o ring looks fine but I suspect it's worn down.
Currently trying to find the right o ring. I bought one and it's the right circumference but too thick, it doesn't fit into the groove Caretaker O-ring For Leaf Trapper Pre-1999 Lid- RO774800

I have the acrylic plastic flat lid where the o ring sits inside the grooves around the canister vs attaching directly to the lid. I have an email out to the company listed, in floor pool parts to figure out which one I need. There are several o ring sizes available for caretaker/ Polaris leaf canisters but the product specs don't give a lot of details.
 

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kadavis said:
Make sure your locking tabs are tight but still fit over the plate. Also pour some water over the top while in place and running and see what happens
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input and suggestions @kadavis

I adjusted the locking tabs so they were a bit tighter fitting over the top of the lid.

I poured a bucket of water over the top and it temporarily stops the bubbles until the water seeps fully through the lid. I can see the air bubbles underneath the lid where the water is going through.

The o ring is brand new. I took the handle off the lid and confirmed the lid is still completely flat. I don't see any obvious imperfections on the lid.

Overall the pool seems to be working well and the main drain is still pulling in debris and keeping the pool clean. It's just perplexing and moreso annoying me to no end 😂

Any other thoughts or suggestions? Is that lid supposed to be completely air tight? Could it be any other of the fittings on the pipe in the leaf canister?
 
Is this the design you have?

IMG_0763.jpeg

If so, looking at the design, I believe that lid should be air tight. Are you lubing the O-Ring as well? If the bubbles all stop when you are holding down that lid, then that is where the problem lies…if you apply additional pressure to only the two clamp locations does it still stop the bubbles? If so, any chance of tightening the clamps even more? If not, would it be possible to “add” additional clamps (diy)?

Also, your water level in the pool is ok, correct? Should be ~halfway up the skimmer flap. That might impact the suction into that chamber from the “Drain Line”.

One other thought, is there a valve to increase the Venturi flow into that chamber “Supply Line” (through that part you are holding)? Have you tried opening that valve more to try and increase the draw (using Venturi action) from the main “Drain Line”? It might just suck more air…or possibly more water from the drain.
 
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jonpcar said:
Is this the design you have?

View attachment 606427

If so, looking at the design, I believe that lid should be air tight. Are you lubing the O-Ring as well? If the bubbles all stop when you are holding down that lid, then that is where the problem lies…if you apply additional pressure to only the two clamp locations does it still stop the bubbles? If so, any chance of tightening the clamps even more? If not, would it be possible to “add” additional clamps (diy)?

Also, your water level in the pool is ok, correct? Should be ~halfway up the skimmer flap. That might impact the suction into that chamber from the “Drain Line”.

One other thought, is there a valve to increase the Venturi flow into that chamber “Supply Line” (through that part you are holding)? Have you tried opening that valve more to try and increase the draw (using Venturi action) from the main “Drain Line”? It might just suck more air…or possibly more water from the drain.
Click to expand...
Appreciate the details, thank you. Some updates...

Biasing suction to the main drain doesn't seem to change anything. After doing some more research, the part im holding does seem to be a valid part to my system.

Here is the part..

I lubed up the oring and it doesn't seem as though air is getting through the lid - I don't see any bubbles around the lid after I poured water onto the lid while running. Pulling off the lid is relatively difficult due to the suction, so I assume it's got a good seal.. However, the water does eventually drain all the way through.

The lubricant did seem to reduce the amount of bubbles coming from the pool return but doesn't completely eliminate them, even if I press down hard on the lid.

Another interesting wrinkle... If I turn on my water feature (waterfall) the canister fills up completely as expected and eliminates the bubbles completely... Does this spark any other ideas/thoughts?

Thanks again all. This has been quite the mystery
 
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