Ideal parameters Phoenix pool

[blkdoutindustries]

Hi, this has been my first full year with a TFP pool and my pool has never looked better but I'm still learning and there is room for improvement. I live in Peoria, AZ and my pool in the summer gets direct sunlight from 6:30am until about 4:30-5:00 pm with water temperatures in the 90s peak summer months.
My current numbers are:
FC 7.5
CC 0-0.5 hard to tell
pH 7.7
TA 100
CYA 50
CH 550
Salt 3500
Water temp 83⁰
I'm currently raising the CYA back to 80ppm cause I realized after thinking my RJ45+ wasn't working that with a CYA in the 50s-60s I lose about 5ppm of FC daily and have to run the SWG to hard to keep up. Pool math says range should be 60-90, any downside to go all the way up to 90 or even higher? I'm currently running the SWG for 10 hours from 9pm to 7am, would it be better to run it longer at a lower % so it's producing while losing some FC? I just don't want to run anything between 4pm-7pm since on peak electric rate is 4-5 times higher here.
The one struggle I have is with PH, seems like pool wants to be in the 8 range and I'm sure it's partly due to the SWG, I'm going to start bringing the TA down to see if that helps, what would be the ideal TA I should shoot for?

Thanks.

 

[reggiehammond]

TA is driving the pH. SWCG has nothing to do with it. Once TA equilibrates around 50-60, pH rise will cease.
Be careful as your CH is getting higher, which raises your CSI. CSI management is crucial to avoid SWCG scale.
CYA - my own experience is that there's a fine line between "enough" and "not enough." I doubt you need more than 80, as I find that 50-60 doesn't work for me, but once I get to 70, it's wonderful. It's also getting to back-end of season and peak UV, so your CYA needs are declining.

One slip-up with high CYA and you'll be in trouble as SLAM is very, very hard at high CYA levels.
I'd be very surprised if you can see SWCG usage on your electric bill, but as long as you make enough FC during production times to offset daily loss, it doesn't matter if you want to shut down pump/swcg from 4-7 daily.

 

[proavia]

There are no "ideal" parameters - there are recommended ranges that can vary based on the pool, pool location, fill water quality, etc.

Work your TA down to 60-ish. This will help slow pH rise.

CYA of 70 or 80 is perfectly fine this time of year. Middle of next Spring, increase CYA to 80. Monitor CYA monthly (more often if something seems off) and dose accordingly. CYA will degrade slowly - more when the pool water is warmer.

Are you using PoolMath?
In PoolMath, turn on trck CC, track salt, track temperarure and track CSI.
With a SWG, you want to keep CSI in the 0.00 to -0.30 (negative 0.30) range. You do this by monitoring CH, TA and pH. Keeping CSI in the range mentioned will minimize scaling in the SWG.

Is your autofill plumbed to city water or does it run thru a water softener? Using soft water for the autofill will minimize CH rise. Here in the PHX area, your entire pool volume (or more) will evaporate every year. As the water evaporates, the CH and other solids are left behind. This causes the calcium to increase and eventually leads to the need to drain/refill the pool.

What RPM are you running the pump at?
What percentage are you running the SWG?
Since you are running the SWG after dark, you are adding all the chlorine during the time the pool isn't (or shouldn't be) using it up. You should dose the pool as if it is a non-SWG pool using the FC/CYA Levels chart. And you need to test FC around sundown or after dark to determine the minimum that the FC is getting to. You never want the FC to fall below the minimum - it's actually better to keep the FC near the upper end of the target range. If you were running the SWG 24/7, you would be adding a little chlorine all the time.

My pump amd SWG runs 24/7 (1200 RPM for 20 hours and 2900 RPM for 4 hours [for IFCS]) and cost is less than $20/month (SRP, not APS). Most of toyr electricaal usage is from the AC, not the pool (if running at a lower RPM). You need to check if you really are saving an appreciable amount of money on your time of use plan. For me and my usage, a regular rate plan is better.

 

[blkdoutindustries]

TA is driving the pH. SWCG has nothing to do with it. Once TA equilibrates around 50-60, pH rise will cease.
Be careful as your CH is getting higher, which raises your CSI. CSI management is crucial to avoid SWCG scale.
CYA - my own experience is that there's a fine line between "enough" and "not enough." I doubt you need more than 80, as I find that 50-60 doesn't work for me, but once I get to 70, it's wonderful. It's also getting to back-end of season and peak UV, so your CYA needs are declining.

One slip-up with high CYA and you'll be in trouble as SLAM is very, very hard at high CYA levels.
I'd be very surprised if you can see SWCG usage on your electric bill, but as long as you make enough FC during production times to offset daily loss, it doesn't matter if you want to shut down pump/swcg from 4-7 daily.

What I thought, that's why I'm working on getting TA down, I'll keep working on it then and you are correct I started the season with a CYA of 70 and everything was fine but since it's my first season with a SWG I didn't know CYA would go down with high heat until I noticed I had to keep turning up the power. I'm sure all the splash out from the drugs swimming didn't help either, I'll make sure to check it monthly during summer next year. Thanks

 

[blkdoutindustries]

There are no "ideal" parameters - there are recommended ranges that can vary based on the pool, pool location, fill water quality, etc.

Work your TA down to 60-ish. This will help slow pH rise.

CYA of 70 or 80 is perfectly fine this time of year. Middle of next Spring, increase CYA to 80. Monitor CYA monthly (more often if something seems off) and dose accordingly. CYA will degrade slowly - more when the pool water is warmer.

Are you using PoolMath?
In PoolMath, turn on trck CC, track salt, track temperarure and track CSI.
With a SWG, you want to keep CSI in the 0.00 to -0.30 (negative 0.30) range. You do this by monitoring CH, TA and pH. Keeping CSI in the range mentioned will minimize scaling in the SWG.

Is your autofill plumbed to city water or does it run thru a water softener? Using soft water for the autofill will minimize CH rise. Here in the PHX area, your entire pool volume (or more) will evaporate every year. As the water evaporates, the CH and other solids are left behind. This causes the calcium to increase and eventually leads to the need to drain/refill the pool.

What RPM are you running the pump at?
What percentage are you running the SWG?
Since you are running the SWG after dark, you are adding all the chlorine during the time the pool isn't (or shouldn't be) using it up. You should dose the pool as if it is a non-SWG pool using the FC/CYA Levels chart. And you need to test FC around sundown or after dark to determine the minimum that the FC is getting to. You never want the FC to fall below the minimum - it's actually better to keep the FC near the upper end of the target range. If you were running the SWG 24/7, you would be adding a little chlorine all the time.

My pump amd SWG runs 24/7 (1200 RPM for 20 hours and 2900 RPM for 4 hours [for IFCS]) and cost is less than $20/month (SRP, not APS). Most of toyr electricaal usage is from the AC, not the pool (if running at a lower RPM). You need to check if you really are saving an appreciable amount of money on your time of use plan. For me and my usage, a regular rate plan is better.

Yeah, I'm using poolmath for sure. Right now autofill is city water with a CH of 325 so I know it would be ideal to setup a soft water system but where the fill line and water softener is it would be a huge job I imagine, it would almost be easier to add a second water softener I think, I'll have to look into it.
Right now I'm running the pump (2hp VS) from 8pm until 3pm, 2 hours at 3k rpm to prime/skim, 10 hours at 1200rpm, 2 hours at 2250 for extra skimming and finish at 1000rpm for 5 hours so definitely can bump that up to 1200 and run the SWG longer if needed, right now running it at 50% for 10 hours or generates 3ppm.
SRP is way cheaper than APS, I'm on the time of day with demand plan, tried all 3 plans and that one was the cheapest but it's a 2900sqft home with 2 AC units so maybe that makes a difference. I can try running it longer

 

[TinFoilHat]

I have been on SRPs Time of Use plan for over 20 years and, based on the monthly comparison chart from SRP of me vs comparable homes, we are saving more than 90% of our neighbors are. TOU is why I run my pool between 9pm and 9am all year long - 4 hours are full speed for IFCS and 8 hours are low speed. We aerate in the summer so we use more acid because of that. Our CH is super high now and I will be draining and then adding soft water to my autofill. This is all so I can manage my CSI for the sake of the SWG. We also found that our electric dropped $30 per month in the summer after we installed the VSP so we've probably more than paid for that pump now. I keep my FC at 7-8ppm by adding 1/2 gallon of LC daily. I add one pint of acid 2 to 3 times per week to stay in the 7s.