I remain, bewildered here

[pcmacd]

In May 2021 I replaced my six or so year old Hayward T15 with a rebuilt unit which was allegedly provided with the same cell that Hayward uses.

I recently replaced the water in my pool. It is betwixt 18K- 19K gallons.

• they charge me for differing amounts ever time they fill it!
  
  
• Do you think the pool volume changes????
  

I serviced the SWG cell, which was laden with calcium. It is now tidy, thank you very much.

I put in 480# of sodium chloride. Unfortunately I did this with the SWG connected (while the SWG cell was still fouled), but I put the salt in the shallow end of the pool in front of some pump return jets, far away from my intakes at the other end of the pool, so I doubt I gave the SWG/computer a shock.

Iben having troubles with the SWG running for a bit then turning off, telling me there is insufficient salt.

It runs at first and then shuts down - "chlorinator error - check salt level"

My salt level is at slightly less than 3000 PPM according to Leslie's a @couple of different stores, and 3200 to 3400 with my Taylor K-1766 kit, stored indoors.

I repeat the Taylor tests with the same water sample over and over using a mechanical/magnetic mixing engine and get repeatable results each time; the difference between 3200 ppm and 3400 ppm is a single drop of reagent R-0718, so as y'all likely know, so the difference of 200 PPM in my measurements is not significant.

Here is what the computer thought was going on with the SWG about the salt level as it was starting up this morning (taken from photographs of the computer screen)

The first entry at 48 seconds was one or two seconds after the SWG fired up after the programmed delay:

TOD (sec)	READING PPM	voltage	current amps	power watts
48​	3100​	-26.74​	-6.3​	168.5​
51​	2200​	-27.36​	-5.03​	137.6​
53​	2100​	-27.53​	-4.8​	132.1​
2​	2000​	-27.53​	-4.66​	128.3​

I went out about five this evening and the SWG was still working, showing around 2100 PPM salt.

What is this wandering and wildly inaccurate PPM reading I am getting from the computer?

I hesitate to add more salt, as 480# is pretty close to 3200 PPM in my pool.

Help Cecil! Help!

mac

 

[ajw22]

Do not add salt. Trust your K-1766 test.

I suspect your cell is depleted but let's look at the diagnostics...

• Report all readings when you..
  • Go to the diagnostic screen, note the readings and then press the + button to reverse the polarity.
  • When the new numbers appear, see what they are.
  • Then, press + again and note the new readings.
• What are the first seven characters of the cell and box serial numbers?

 

[pcmacd]

Ah. I meant to mention that it is refurbT15 with a replacement cell. The rebuilding firm claims they use the same core as Hayward; it appears to be so.

I'll try the polarity thing.

By "box" you mean controller?

 

[ajw22]

What SWGT controller do you have?

Post pics of your controller and cell.

 

[pcmacd]

What SWGT controller do you have?

Post pics of your controller and cell.

Thank you.

My controller is noted in my tag line. My rebuilt T15 has no information except for "Salt Water Solutions" and a phone number.

SWG is 10 months old, and it din't run much over the cold weather.

I'll have to supply the controller information later.

~~~~~
Did the +/- thing on the SWG.

BEFORE: +27 / +5.7 / 2500 ppm - 154 watts.

Negative flip: -27.2 / -5.3 / no salt indication - 144 watts.

back to +: +25.19 / +8.55 / 2700 ppm (likely, photo not exactly clear.) - 215 watts.

What did we just accomplish here by screwing around with the SWG polarity?

Why did the current go up along with the indicated salinity?

mac

 

[ajw22]

Hayward Progrid pl-p-4 Computer

Hayward makes filters they call Progrid

Hayward has a pool automation system called ProLogic

Something is confused.

Showing me a picture your controller can clear up the confusion if you want assistance here.

 

[pcmacd]

As I have not gotten around to identifying the exact Hayward controller I have, but from my records it seems to be a ProLogic pl-p-4

• can you please shed some light on what the polarity reversals accomplished?
  
  
• some sort of magic happened, and all is now well???

I'd like to understand it.

thanks

 

[ajw22]

The Hayward controller reverses polarity on the cell every 180 minutes.

One set of plates is the anode and other set of plates is the cathode.

Electrons flow from the anode to the cathode. Flipping the polarity swaps the anode and cathode. That evens out the wear and also looks to shed calcium scale on the plates. We therefore need to see the diagnostics for when the cell is running in both directions.

From the diagnostics you posted it looks like your cell only runs properly in one polarity. That would also explain why your cell scaled up.

I think your cell needs to be replaced. It is only working at 50% of its capacity at best.

 

[pcmacd]

Thank you for your replies.

Understand that this is a newly re-filled pool.

--->>> I do not at all understand your conclusion that the SWG is deficient?

Can you please explain?

--->>> How am I to explain to the persons who sold me this rebuilt cell that it needs to be replaced?

This issue is not clear to me, a newbie with salt pools, but with 30 years' experience with conventional in ground pools.

~~~~~
I put in ten pounds of granular CYA, so the 65 PPM I am seeing is perfect, but it needs to come up a bit to 70 or 75 PPM.

Further, the computer now thinks we have 2700 PPM salt, and my chlorine levels are spot on. at 5.5 PPM (SWG @50%).

According to TFP computations, I should have around 3200 PPM salt, +/- 200 PPM depending on the exact (unknown) volume of the pool.

I added 480# of salt to a nominal 18.2K gallon pool, with City of Mesa water to start - should yield 3200 PPM.

--->>> Why the computer reassessment of the salt level after changing polarities for a few seconds?

thanks

 

[ajw22]

Thank you for your replies.

Understand that this is a newly re-filled pool.

--->>> I do not at all understand your conclusion that the SWG is deficient?

Can you please explain?

I suggest you read all the technical details in Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading to understand how a Hayward salt system works.

--->>> How am I to explain to the persons who sold me this rebuilt cell that it needs to be replaced?

This issue is not clear to me, a newbie with salt pools, but with 30 years' experience with conventional in ground pools.

Show them your diagnostic information. If they understand about Hayward salt system they will see that one polarity is defective.

~~~~~
I put in ten pounds of granular CYA, so the 65 PPM I am seeing is perfect, but it needs to come up a bit to 70 or 75 PPM.

You cannot measure CYA in less then the lines. The scale is logarithmic, not linear. Halfway between lines is not 5. You cannot eyeball what it is. Thus we round up. Your CYA is 70.

The CYA test is not as precise as you are making it out to be. At best it is +/- 10 ppm. So you can't adjust CYA by 5 to 10 ppm since you can't really measure it.

CYA 70 is as good as 80. Anywhere in the ballpark is fine.

Further, the computer now thinks we have 2700 PPM salt, and my chlorine levels are spot on. at 5.5 PPM (SWG @50%).

According to TFP computations, I should have around 3200 PPM salt, +/- 200 PPM depending on the exact (unknown) volume of the pool.

I added 480# of salt to a nominal 18.2K gallon pool, with City of Mesa water to start - should yield 3200 PPM.

--->>> Why the computer reassessment of the salt level after changing polarities for a few seconds?

The Hayward box does not have any salinity sensor. It does not measure the salt. It uses the volts and amps the cell draws to determine what the salinity would be in a new Hayward cell. If the cell is defective then the box salinity readings will be incorrect since it is drawing the incorrect volts and amps. The fact that the salinity from the box does not come close to the actual measured salinity is the tell that the cell is defective.

The way you think things work is not the way things actually work.

And do not become a slave to the robot. PoolMath is simply applying mathematical models. What you measure in chemical tests like the K-1766 is the accurate salinity that you should trust. Neither Pool Math or the Hayward box has any idea what it actually is.

 

[1poolman1]

"The rebuilding firm claims they use the same core as Hayward " may be true. There is more to the Hayward cell than just the core. The connection cable enters an area that is sensitive and should never be covered by the acid cleaning solution during the cell cleaning process. Can that, or that a cell wasn't cleaned upside down, be guaranteed in a used cell? Were the connections properly made? Did they fail? You can't find this out. It definitely sounds like half the plates are not or poorly connected because of the readings when the polarity reverses. This will give false salt readings as well. The other option is your control has failed. The only real way to know for sure, without factory instruments, is to have a known-good cell in place and that means a new one. Some larger pool stores used to have cell testing, but I haven't seen that in a while.

 

[pcmacd]

Well, thanks for all of your inputs.

For some reason this sucker has decided that we have 2700 PPM salt and has started working.

Go figure?