Good Job OP, you've been through a lot this first pool season for you already. Every year following this one is going to seem easy as pie after what you have done. Good luck with getting the water balanced now, keep posting up your info and when things start to get clear you can add the DE and skimmer socks if you want for truly shiny water!
I am crying. Pool leaks and Filtration problems.
- Thread starter tangoshoes
- Start date
LOL, I know. I'm sure she's not crying so much anymore, but with the thread title it always puts the updates in that light!
Lol! You guys are hilarious! Honestly I feel silly having cried about it... I mean anyone who is lucky enough to have a pool shouldn't be crying lol! I've just been so overwhelmed with repairs! It's a good thing the pool is on its way to recovery though.. the AC stopped running after the second time we turned it on this year... I haven't even looked at it. I'm still ticked the furnace went just 4 months after moving in. I was thankfully able to fix that. Maybe I'll find a trouble free AC forum to join! lol I've been thinking about how much money we've spent into getting this thing running. I'm going to guess it's about $900. While we really couldn't afford it right now... I'd have to say that's a gosh darn good deal for basically a new pool system (done correctly). That's also including buying new pool equipment (vacuum, hose, leaf rake, pole),chemicals for the SLAM, and testing equipment. I think we could have dropped that much just getting the return jet working again had we gone to the pool store. The guy at the pool store thinks I'm a nut now. He always asks how things are going when I come in for equipment (most I do buy online). I always tell him things are going great! He just looks at me with a confused look. He knows I haven't been buying chemicals there and that my pool had a lot of problems to begin with and I haven't made an appointment for service to come out. But I'm still appreciative to have a pool store with a no-pressure sales group who is also very knowledgeable. It was helpful to see how different types of pools work which they showed me when I came in the first time.
The pump doesn't seem to be as stinky and I can still touch it for more than 10 seconds without getting burned. It's been running all day. I'm still irritated that I have bubbles in my return. I figured I did before because I could see all the plumbing leaks. I had one that would fill a coffee can in 2 hours and one that would fill a 2 gallon bucket everyday. Now I only have one tiny drip. The elbow that connects to the poly hose to the filter from the pump. I figure it just needs more plumbers tape but it definitely doesn't justify the bubbles I'm getting. My clean filter pressure is now 5 instead of 8psi with the old sand and lateral assembly. That just seems really low to me... is that normal?
Thanks for all the props guys! Everybody's confidence in me has definitely held me up along the way!
I would just replace the poly hose with pvc. Those hoses break down over time and can leak. No hurry to replace it, however. If your pump is 1/2 horsepower then a clean pressure of 5psi is perfectly normal.
The leak is actually where the elbow attaches to the pump. Seems to get worse with the pressure rising which sounds about right. I tried to get a new hose when I did everything else Lowes and the pool store were both out. I truthfully never want to hard plumb anything ever again lol but I know it will have to done eventually.
I added DE to the filter. Too much at first. I should have read the instructions again. I thought it said add 1/2 a cup at a time. That proved to be about 3psi in my case. So I went down to 1/4 cup and that was just about right if not a little more than 1psi. Hard to gauge with the needle moving. I backwashed the 1/2 cup out when my psi jumped to 15 in about 3 hours. I then did the 1/4 cup. The psi went back up to 15 in about 12-15 hours. Truthfully I'm not sure it's actually doing anything. It normally takes several days for my psi to get that high. When I backwashed the 1/4 cup out I didn't even see any green in the sight glass just white. Normally I would see lots of green getting backwashed out. Not sure if I should do it again. Didn't see any real difference in the pool clarity. It's been about the same for the past 3 days. We can at least see objects on the bottom of the shallow end.
I keep vacuuming every day. Sometimes twice a day. Keep FC at 25. I'll bet my CYA has gone down with all the new water being added but it's easier to just assume its higher because I have tabs in the water still. Might as well use them up during this process because I don't think I'll ever be using them for normal maintenance. Seems like a scam to me... Pool store sells them as easy maintenance but never tells you that it will jack your CYA effectively making the chlorine useless. I'm not sure if they assume it works out because of evaporation or what.
Here's the pool today. I left the vacuum in so you can see how clear it's getting on the shallow end. It's been ungodly hot here so I've been vacuuming at night... then I realized during the day you can clearly see where I have vacuumed and where I haven't so I'm doing it during the day now too. Do I start taking overnight FC and CC numbers now or wait until I can see the deep end? Does it need to be crystal clear to stop SLAM?
I've worked out of town for most of last 10 years so wife has been the Pool Captain. I have been home for an extended time now..so I've taken over the pool and found TFP and have learned what CYA is and does. I went to Leslie's for testing before I had my test kit..They have been selling wife Shock Plus for numerous years...never mentioning CYA effects...Looking at test results..I think my Stabilizer was 140...They're reply was..."Wow that's high you need to drain a bunch of water..I'm talking multiple feet!"...Not once did they say...and when you're done quit using Trichlor tabs because they did that!
In my quest to learn about CYA and draining I found TFP mid May...Now I am truly Free!..This stuff works!
This is actually confirmation the DE is working. Right now you have a lot of junk to filter out. If it normally takes 3 days to reach 15 and it got it to 15 in 3 hours, I'd say it's working. You're not going to notice change overnight because your water is still pretty cloudy and you probably still have organics you're killing. If you think of the cloudiness in your pool as "stuff that makes my filter pressure rise", then you can simplify the equation by thinking in terms of "I might have to backwash 10 times in this SLAM". DE just helps you reach that faster. Now that said, it doesn't affect the chemistry problem you're also trying to solve - stuff will still try to grow and the FC elevation is critical to keep that going. Which will add dead algae, which will increase number of backwashes. But the quicker you get some of that stuff out of the pool, the easier it is to visually see (and thus brush/vacuum), the easier it is for the chlorine to do it's work, etc. I'd keep using DE, even though it adds a tiny bit of work.
The white instead of green is possibly explainable - right now you have both dead and live algae in your pool. Over 3 days, the sand filter collects a lot of both since the whole pool gets circulated many times. It's easy to see how your backwash would be green tinted. With DE, you backwash after 3 hours. This is not a lot of time to collect the live stuff since you kind of have to luck out, but the dead stuff that clouds your pool the most is readily available to be captured right away. But I might be mis-thinking this. At any rate, faster PSI rise is at least a definite sign it's filtering stuff out, and right now any tint to the sight glass (green or white) is a good thing.
Many people stop before it's crystal clear only because they don't know what clear is (but discover after a few weeks of TFP how clear it really gets). But if you can clearly see the bottom and detail of the main drain, CC is near zero, and FC holds overnight, then you at least don't have anything growing anymore and can lower back down to normal.
Given the number of problems you've had to deal with, I'd encourage you to stay the course right now. Even though it's been awhile, it's not really started truly working until just a bit ago when your filtration started working effectively. If it's still green and cloudy in another week, then some SLAMs have suggested letting stuff settle to the bottom to vacuum more effectively, but I don't know that yours is to that point yet. I'd say to use the DE as long as you're around to monitor it, and try to get that stuff filtered out.
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,293
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
That's a great post from drharris!
Keep in mind that it's entirely normal to rely on the filter do its job, and relax a bit on the vacuuming, and especially vacuuming to waste. The filter is made to remove the cloudiness, and as drharris explained, is working faster with a little DE in it. It's working just the way you want it to! All good
You can just brush the pool once a day, or even twice, which helps stir up the dust on the bottom and keep it heading to the filter. Vacuuming only works really well when the pump is left off and dust is allowed to settle. But during a SLAM the pump is running 24/7, so not as much settles.
Definitely keep the SLAM going through to completion. You will be glad you did!
Your SLAM will be faster and cheaper if you stop using pucks and stick to liquid chlorine. The process is to test your CYA and use the shock FC level from the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. Pucks will keep for years as long as they're kept dry, and can be very handy for vacations.
It's great to see all your progress and I was happy to hear you found an above ground leak! As much as it's a pain, at least those are the cheap ones to find and fix
Keep in mind that it's entirely normal to rely on the filter do its job, and relax a bit on the vacuuming, and especially vacuuming to waste. The filter is made to remove the cloudiness, and as drharris explained, is working faster with a little DE in it. It's working just the way you want it to! All good
You can just brush the pool once a day, or even twice, which helps stir up the dust on the bottom and keep it heading to the filter. Vacuuming only works really well when the pump is left off and dust is allowed to settle. But during a SLAM the pump is running 24/7, so not as much settles.
Definitely keep the SLAM going through to completion. You will be glad you did!
Your SLAM will be faster and cheaper if you stop using pucks and stick to liquid chlorine. The process is to test your CYA and use the shock FC level from the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. Pucks will keep for years as long as they're kept dry, and can be very handy for vacations.
It's great to see all your progress and I was happy to hear you found an above ground leak! As much as it's a pain, at least those are the cheap ones to find and fix
Ok, I cut back vacuuming and started brushing. I've been adding DE and back washing at least once a day. We are gaining noticeable clarity everyday... so now my next question... which stairs lol? Previous owners left us 4 sets of stairs. Far as I can tell there is only one place to anchor the ladder type stairs. We have a ton of stuff for an above ground pool so I'm not sure if that's what these big stairs are for or just more elaborate in ground stairs with out built in.
My previous ladder was corroded, so I asked my pool builder to bring a replacement. It was installed for a month before I realized it's like the one you have in front - no low step! Great for bicep workouts, but ugh.
Hmm, interesting. Yes, the ladders will be easy to find - just find the two holes, install, and tighten the little nut beside the hole to anchor it. Not sure why you have two ladders and one place for it, but just pick the best one (probably the 3-step one)! It looks like they have some concrete or something around the back poles - you might want to scrape/sand that stuff off first. If the anchors are still metal cups, make sure they haven't corroded, or you'll have a hard time getting those ladders back out this fall. You can get PVC type cups to replace the metal kind, just requires drilling out the existing cups and replacing them with some cement. I had my PB do it last fall, but I wish I'd just done it myself - nothing to it especially compared to what you've had to do yourself already!
Those stairs can be used in yours too as long as the height is right. You can use your nice new collection of bleach bottles to weigh it down. Just be aware that it can become an algae haven due to poor circulation - it should be the first suspect in any outbreak, and you should regularly brush around and in it to prevent such things. You might also use a garden hose to circulate it from time to time and/or put bleach directly into the holes with a turkey baster or something. You can also drill additional holes that will aid in circulation. Even better if return jets can hit it directly! Some people have no issues, some people fight it constantly.
Also, post a picture.
Those stairs can be used in yours too as long as the height is right. You can use your nice new collection of bleach bottles to weigh it down
. Just be aware that it can become an algae haven due to poor circulation - it should be the first suspect in any outbreak, and you should regularly brush around and in it to prevent such things. You might also use a garden hose to circulate it from time to time and/or put bleach directly into the holes with a turkey baster or something. You can also drill additional holes that will aid in circulation. Even better if return jets can hit it directly! Some people have no issues, some people fight it constantly.Also, post a picture.
I put the three step ladder into the holes. One has a bolt but is rusted on there and the head is stripped. The other side is missing the bolt and clamp. Surprisingly the ladder fits snugly in there with very little wiggle. Should be ok for now I think. The water is clear enough to see a large spider crack in the vinyl liner near the ladder. I ordered a patch kit. It can't be leaking much water because I don't loose much at all but I did notice a lot of dirt is getting in that way.
So I said to my hubby the other night "You better get prepared to get a hotel room" he gave me a supper worried look and asked why. I said "because I've got poolidus and if this pool doesn't clear up soon I'm going to need to go to a hotel and use theirs" lol! He looked very relived and offered to make the reservations right away if I was serious lol!
Picture tomorrow. I keep stirring the pool up today which doesn't make for an accurate representation of clarity. Must have brushed 5 times. It's all I can do in this heat! I want to get in so badly!
So I said to my hubby the other night "You better get prepared to get a hotel room" he gave me a supper worried look and asked why. I said "because I've got poolidus and if this pool doesn't clear up soon I'm going to need to go to a hotel and use theirs" lol! He looked very relived and offered to make the reservations right away if I was serious lol!
Picture tomorrow. I keep stirring the pool up today which doesn't make for an accurate representation of clarity. Must have brushed 5 times. It's all I can do in this heat! I want to get in so badly!
You might be better off in your almost clear pool than a hotel pool! :joker::joker::joker:
So aside from the spider crack, I also have a spot where it looks like the seam is coming up from the liner. Does anyone have any recommendations for these? I just ordered the standard vinyl pool liner patch repair kit. Comes with vinyl and underwater glue. We aren't losing water like with the return jet issue but my husband felt around this spider crack and said it was a depression. Probably from dirt washing away under the liner. I'm avoiding that spot with brushing until I can get in for the the repair as it's just making it worse I think. Sorry for a the blurry picture too. It's not the water clarity just the focus on my camera.
Here's the total pool.
a lot less green... a lot more blue!
Here's the total pool.
a lot less green... a lot more blue! Yes, I'd patch it soon if it's enough for dirt to work it's way in. Use a sponge (maybe with bleach) to clean the area before applying the patch so it doesn't adhere to any dirt. Hopefully you have a snorkel or something to make it easier!
Haha! Though I think you'll find once you use TFP methods to maintain your pool, it will be hard to ever use a hotel pool again. There is some natural pool snobbery that results from doing things the right way; it's just hard to enjoy using one that you know is improperly sanitized.
It should patch pretty much the same way, but these are the weakest patches. It should hold for some time, but you may eventually want a new liner anyway. It can always be repatched. Just use a patch a decent bit larger than the hole/seam, clean the area thoroughly, use the glue as directed, and apply the patch. Be sure to cut the patch with rounded corners, and if it's thick enough to cut it at a bit of a bevel (so the part against the pool is slightly larger than the part facing the water, if that makes sense), then do that. The goal is to not allow brushes, vacuums, and swimmers to easily lift any part of the patch.
Anyway, great progress! I think you're really close to seeing this thing clear up.
Thanks again drharris! You'll be happy to know I saw an elusive beast today. I went out a few hours later this morning and saw ... bum bum bahhh... the MAIN DRAIN! Yep it's down there for sure! I was beginning to wonder! We also decided to take a short dip in the shallow end last night. It's been so hot here... even at 10pm it was 80 degrees in the pool... so nice! I'm still maintaining SLAM FC until it clears up more and we can properly scrub the sides. Any recommendation for side scrubbing... will a dish scrubber be ok on the vinyl? They are a bit scaly feeling and I know we have some hard water spots. I'd love a new liner but I doubt think it's in the budget this year. Next year we might be able to swing it. Anyone know a ball park figure for a 17x30ish pool liner? They make you take so many measurements for the estimate I knew I wouldn't be able to submit for one for a while but I might be able to start taking some in the next few days. Thanks as always for the help!
Ouch! Why twice? Or are you saying twice since you've owned the pool?
If it's calcium scale, scrubbing it off isn't going to really help. Once you get your chemistry balanced, the issue could take care of itself. Run the pH on the low end, and it could eventually go back into solution. If it's some other kind of crud, then maybe the non-scratch kind of dish sponge would work, but honestly I'd first see if the chemistry can take care of it. If you have areas that are spiderish cracks, then that liner could be unable to handle any vigorous scrubbing. It might have sat dry in the sun at some point, for all you know. So for now just brush it, and once your pool is clear and you spend the summer with good balance, see if that's enough to clear it up.
Ballpark would probably be from $2.5k-4k installed. About $1k of that is typically locked up in labor, but it's a heck of a job to do it yourself. A good PB might measure and quote it for free, especially if you can find the original builder or records. Plus, you'll have initial startup costs of water and chemicals, so be sure to prepare for that too. Hopefully your liner should last you at least this season if you baby it, and you can save up for the eventual replacement. Keep the sucker well patched and you might get a few seasons out of it!
Hey OP, good job with how things keep coming with your pool. I keep checking up on your thread and feel bad now that I see the liner
I came home to the same type of tear in the liner earlier in the season, but my pool had lost about 5,000 gallons of water by the time I had gotten home from work. If you have a local pool store they seem to all sell the "Boxer 100" glue and I can't tell by the pic you posted but the clear patch they include in the kit is not that big. I ended up using a large piece of left over liner from where they did the cut out for our shallow end walk in stairs whenever the liner was last replaced. So far this season it has saved us the $4-$6K of needing to replace the liner this season.
Just wanted to post this in case the the kit you ordered is going to take a few days to get to the house, I think locally my glue was only like $20. I had to repair it when the water was about 55 degrees and that sucked but sounds like your pool is already pretty warm. There are some really great tutorials on this sit about how to prep, apply the glue and squeegee the air out. So make sure you browse around.
If your husband noted the ground around or under that patch is soft than that means the water is starting to be absorbed by the poured pool foundation and is going to start draining out pretty soon into the ground. The sooner you patch it the better and make sure you cut round edges like they recommend and that you get glue all the way to the edges. My tear was about 12" long and when I stepped on the soft area around it I put another 4" long tear going perpendicular through the initial cut. Looks just like the "X or T " shape one you have there. As you can see in the pic I'm going to post my patch is about 3 1/2 feet by 2 feet. You can also note how old my liner is between the original blue on the patch and the current white liner. It probably won't make it more than another year for me but fingers crossed! I think when my pool was cloudy at the start of the season some if my excessive brushing might have aggravated a weak spot in the liner.
- - - Updated - - -
- - - Updated - - -
I came home to the same type of tear in the liner earlier in the season, but my pool had lost about 5,000 gallons of water by the time I had gotten home from work. If you have a local pool store they seem to all sell the "Boxer 100" glue and I can't tell by the pic you posted but the clear patch they include in the kit is not that big. I ended up using a large piece of left over liner from where they did the cut out for our shallow end walk in stairs whenever the liner was last replaced. So far this season it has saved us the $4-$6K of needing to replace the liner this season.
Just wanted to post this in case the the kit you ordered is going to take a few days to get to the house, I think locally my glue was only like $20. I had to repair it when the water was about 55 degrees and that sucked but sounds like your pool is already pretty warm. There are some really great tutorials on this sit about how to prep, apply the glue and squeegee the air out. So make sure you browse around.
If your husband noted the ground around or under that patch is soft than that means the water is starting to be absorbed by the poured pool foundation and is going to start draining out pretty soon into the ground. The sooner you patch it the better and make sure you cut round edges like they recommend and that you get glue all the way to the edges. My tear was about 12" long and when I stepped on the soft area around it I put another 4" long tear going perpendicular through the initial cut. Looks just like the "X or T " shape one you have there. As you can see in the pic I'm going to post my patch is about 3 1/2 feet by 2 feet. You can also note how old my liner is between the original blue on the patch and the current white liner. It probably won't make it more than another year for me but fingers crossed! I think when my pool was cloudy at the start of the season some if my excessive brushing might have aggravated a weak spot in the liner.
- - - Updated - - -
- - - Updated - - -
I bought a house with an improperly maintained pool and an old liner. After a hurricane it was messed up, partly due to negligence on my part, and not worth fixing, so I treated myself to a new liner. The new liner lasted a year before a seam split in the shallow corner pretty wide. I had it patched for free but it looked awful. The next year another seam slip near the shallow stairs, which again was patched. This patch would not stop leaking and I hated dealing with the pool guy, so I just ordered a new liner. He measured the new liner in more exacting detail and it was made to be a better fit and not to stretch as much as the previous liner. After minor problems with the pool guys during the filling (they accidentally drained the pool half-way through the fill because they left the filter setting on waste with the filter timer still on) it has been trouble free since.