How screwed am I?

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markc99

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May 13, 2013
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So, I left my pump run overnight last evening and I looked this morning and the water was still moving like normal, and then around 10am or so, I looked out and the water wasn't moving. Upon inspection, there wasn't any water moving in the pump either and it had lost prime.

I turned it off, and opened the cover of the pump basket, and the water was steaming... Not great...

I had needed to clean the DE "fingers" anyway, so I took the filter apart and cleaned everything up. Put all back together and after filling the pump up with water and starting it, it initially started pumping water like normal and then just slowly stopped doing that, to the point where again, no water was moving. I have no idea what could be wrong at this point.

I've done DIY motor repairs in the past, and I'm not scared of that, I've also replaced the wet side of the pump and motor before also, but due to the age of the filter, I'm wondering if I should just replace the whole thing at this point.

Any help would be appreciated.

Mark
 
Something is causing your pump to lose prime, and the filter won't have anything to do with it. The key is to first figure out what/why, so let's go over a few things:
- This is for the Hayward Super-Pump correct?
- How old is the pump/motor?
- Pool water level high enough?
- Skimmer weir door not stuck shut?
- Valves all open properly at the pad?
- Any chance something slipped pat the pump pot's strainer basket and got tangled around the impeller? Check with power OFF.
- Do you have more than one suction line (i.e. separate skimmer and drain)? Have you tried alternating to see if there is a difference?

At this point, do you notice any obvious deformation of the pump or fittings from the heat?
 
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Texas Splash said:
Something is causing your pump to lose prime, and the filter won't have anything to do with it. The key is to first figure out what/why, so let's go over a few things:
- This is for the Hayward Super-Pump correct?
- How old is the pump/motor?
- Pool water level high enough?
- Skimmer weir door not stuck shut?
- Valves all open properly at the pad?
- Any chance something slipped pat the pump pot's strainer basket and got tangled around the impeller? Check with power OFF.
- Do you have more than one suction line (i.e. separate skimmer and drain)? Have you tried alternating to see if there is a difference?

At this point, do you notice any obvious deformation of the pump or fittings from the heat?
Click to expand...
It is for the SuperPump.
The motor is fairly new, maybe 2-3 years I'm guessing...
Pool water is about half way up the skimmer, so definitely within range I like to keep it.
I just checked the Weir door, thinking that was the easy fix, but it's definitely moving and not stuck
I'm not sure which valves you mean, I had the bleed valve open on the top of the filter, and when I initially turned the pump on, it was blowing air quite fast, but as the water pressure dropped, I could hear the air wasn't coming out as fast. The second time I started it, after checking the weir, water started coming out of the top of the filter as usual before closing that.
It certainly is possible that something got past the pump pot strainer... I guess the next step is disconnecting the wet side from the motor side and checking the impeller?
I only have one suction line coming in the filter, one skimmer, no drain.
I did not notice any deformations from the heat from the outside of the pump or fittings.

Thanks,
Mark
 
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After you check the impeller area, the only other thing I can think of would be a partial clog in your suction line. Might be worth looking into. Run a snake through it, or use a garden hose to push water "backwards" from the pump to the skimmer to see if anything dislodges.
 
Texas Splash said:
After you check the impeller area, the only other thing I can think of would be a partial clog in your suction line. Might be worth looking into. Run a snake through it, or use a garden hose to push water "backwards" from the pump to the skimmer to see if anything dislodges.
Click to expand...
Roger that... I'll check the impeller shortly and then if it's still messed up, I'll try the hose trick. Thanks @Texas Splash and @oldprophet.
 
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So, I took off the impeller housing, and there were a couple pine needles in there, nothing too crazy... Turned it on and same thing... Then I put the ShopVac on blow at the skimmer and blew towards the pump and a little water came out and then nothing, no air or anything... If I stop the shop vac and try again, and bit more water comes out, and then nothing... I feel no air coming out of the hose...

I brought my water hose over, and literally shoved it in the return pipe, and I'm hitting something hard about 6 feet in... Which I can only assume is either a 90 degree elbow, or whatever is blocking the pipe...

I guess I have a blockage in my suction line... The suction line is the crappy flexible piping that all my pool people have told me is horrible...

I guess the question becomes, do I need to dig out the flexible pipe and replace that? What do I replace it with, just standard PVC piping? Of course, tomorrow is supposed to be the hottest day of the summer so far...
 
Typically, any blockage would come from the skimmer and is better to try to get it to go back out from where it came...

You might try pushing it out rather than pushing it in...
 
markc99 said:
I guess the question becomes, do I need to dig out the flexible pipe and replace that? What do I replace it with, just standard PVC piping? Of course, tomorrow is supposed to be the hottest day of the summer so far...
Click to expand...
I can't advice you about whether to dig or not. If you replace it use schedule 40...and no DWV.

markc99 said:
I was pushing the hose in the pipe from the filter side.
Click to expand...
markc99 said:
Then I put the ShopVac on blow at the skimmer and blew towards the pump and a little water came out and then nothing, no air or anything.
Click to expand...
 
Right, I get what you are saying, I tried pushing air both directions, and no luck...

So, if I do dig out the pipe, I'm assuming I need to dig the whole way to the skimmer and replace the whole thing up to the bottom of the skimmer?
 
My apologies, I must be the hard-headed one here who doesn't get it. :hammer: In Post #11 above, I understand that after the impeller work, you tried to push air & water backwards from the pool skimmer to the pump. On that suction line it appears you were encountering a blockage with little to no air or water correct? So that suction line has a problem yes?

But right after that was this .........

markc99 said:
I brought my water hose over, and literally shoved it in the return pipe, and I'm hitting something hard about 6 feet in... Which I can only assume is either a 90 degree elbow, or whatever is blocking the pipe...
Click to expand...
Followed by this clarification ......
markc99 said:
I was pushing the hose in the pipe from the filter side.
Click to expand...

To make sure I'm visualizing this properly, after you confirmed a suction line blockage, you then switched to the pressure side after the filter to push water from the filter outlet back to the return jet(s) correct?

If I got all of that correct, did any water come out of the return jet(s) on that pressure side test?

Like I said, I got a bit confused on the past few posts. :crazy:
 
My apologies for the confusion. Let me try to add some clarity... I was never doing anything on the pressure side, it was always suction side, either by the pump/motor/filter, or in the skimmer itself.

The first thing I tried was attaching the thing I put in the skimmer to close the pool (I know it has a name, but I don't recall what it is...). Mine has a screw off top to allow me to attach an adapter which connects to the Shop-Vac to blow out the lines, so I started there... Trying to blow air through, back to the pump. Water would come through the pipe for a second and then stop, and when I placed my hand over the outlet (in the pump basket) I felt no air coming through.

Then someone recommended checking the male threaded connection coming into the pump housing, since they tend to loosen up when the pump over heats. Mine was loose, so I tightened it up, but that made no difference.

Now is probably a good time to say, I have that flexible pipe stuff as all the underground plumbing for my pool. (We bought the house with the pool, so it was already there) While I was messing with the plumbing and checking tightness, the union from the elbow that feeds the pump, and the pipe going to the skimmer separated, so I just ended up removing the elbow, thinking I was going to need to be digging out the old pipes anyway. So, now I have a pipe, that goes to my skimmer, sticking out of the ground, by my pool pump/filter. Once that opening was created, without the elbow that connects it to the pump, I figured I needed something like a snake to feed into the pipe to check for the blockage, or maybe loosen it up, so I sent my garden hose down the pipe, from the filter side. (With the water turned off) I was able to get the hose in the pipe around 6 feet before hitting something.

When the wife got home from work, she recommended I try one of those drain clog compressed air things we have for the toilet and shower drains when they get clogged... I loaded it up, and shot it in from the pump side toward the skimmer, and water shot out of it 10-20 feet in the air.

I hooked the Shop-Vac back up to the SKIMMER side and tried blowing air through from the other direction, which again, sputtered a little and then nothing, no air, no water... Finally, I tried once more with the Shop-Vac, and whatever was in there came flying out because now air was pouring out of the pipe by the pump. Got some primer and cement and just put everything back together... Waiting for an hour for the cement to cure, and then I should be back in business.

I really appreciate everyone's help, and patience with my confusion on this.

Mark
 
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Texas Splash said:
Wow! Thanks for the update. So you had something stubborn in there and blasted it out. That's good. Hope everything works better now once you crank it all up. Just in time for the weekend. :swim:
Click to expand...
Well, it looks like we're not out of the woods yet. Although I have cleared the blockage, I'm still not getting as much pressure as I'm used to, and the pump basket isn't filling up the whole way. Did I damage the pump motor when it overheated?
 

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