How do I divert water in a water basin to prevent overflow?

johnkim2020

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2020
49
Canada
Hi,

I want to build a separate water basin just to house my non-priming submersible custom pumps for water features.

This basin will be hidden away.


Here is how water flow:

1)Pool -> 2) Pool Pump -> 3) Water Feature Return -> 4) My Basin -> 5) Custom Pump -> 6) Water Goes back to Pool



My question is step #3 and #4. When water going into my basin, how do I prevent my basin overflowing? I know normal basin near pool has spillover but my basin is hidden away and won't interact with my pool.


Is there a way for diversion so overflow water will flow back to the pool system? Do I install a skimmer type of device at my basin and connect it back to the pool suction line?


Advice please.
 

cowboycasey

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 3, 2013
5,930
Southern OK
That seems like a lot of expense and work to make a system that is not designed to work.... Is there a reason for doing this? Is the water feature not in the pool?

Just get a priming pump and connect it to the pool and use it with the water features...
 
  • Like
Reactions: johnkim2020

johnkim2020

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2020
49
Canada
That seems like a lot of expense and work to make a system that is not designed to work.... Is there a reason for doing this? Is the water feature not in the pool?

Just get a priming pump and connect it to the pool and use it with the water features...
Hi,

The reason is the pump I use is not pimrable. It is special DMX capable DC pump that is connected to my computerized controller to do PWM coordinated dancing water fountain.

They have to be submersed in water.

It shouldn't be too hard to make a vinyl water storage tank.

 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,877
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Let's call your basin a surge tank. One of the things you need to do with your computerized controller is ensure that the Fontana pump is on anytime water is flowing to the surge tank.

Size the surge tank so that in normal operation it is only half full. Place the surge tank above the pool water level. Put an overflow drain towards the top of the tank and pipe the overflow drain to the pool so if the tank fills to that point gravity drains the water into the pool.
 

johnkim2020

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2020
49
Canada
Let's call your basin a surge tank. One of the things you need to do with your computerized controller is ensure that the Fontana pump is on anytime water is flowing to the surge tank.

Size the surge tank so that in normal operation it is only half full. Place the surge tank above the pool water level. Put an overflow drain towards the top of the tank and pipe the overflow drain to the pool so if the tank fills to that point gravity drains the water into the pool.
Thanks.

Would it be easier if I just connect the overflow drain of surge tank to pool suction? As soon as it above overflow, it goes back to pool suction line.

Or this describes the same thing as your proposed?
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,877
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks.

Would it be easier if I just connect the overflow drain of surge tank to pool suction? As soon as it above overflow, it goes back to pool suction line.

Or this describes the same thing as your proposed?

That will give you a big air leak in your suction line since normally it will not have water in it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: johnkim2020

cowboycasey

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 3, 2013
5,930
Southern OK
You need a body of water that has exactly the same amount of water in it at all times... How many gallons do you need to run all the pumps? I am thinking you just need poly tank with a minimum 2 inch pipe connection to the pool, 2.5 or 3 inch will move more water.. If you put the top of the tank above the waterline of the pool it will fill the tank to the exact height of the pool.. Then you only need to find out how much water your pumps will pull out of the barrel at once and get a barrel with enough water capacity and big enough to install all the pumps in it...

An auto pool filler uses the same exact tech to fill the pool... Basically follow these instructions for your tank

This one is 220 gallons

Use one of these and cut a hole in the side of the tank at the exact level of the pipe coming from the pool

Use this one to connect to that part

The tank can not be air tight as the water will naturally flow to the tank

Hope this helps :)

By the way, thanks for the link to that company, I do Christmas lights and now I want some of these for the pool.. Are you also going to have Addressable module in pool lights to match what your doing with the pumps?
 
  • Like
Reactions: johnkim2020

johnkim2020

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2020
49
Canada
You need a body of water that has exactly the same amount of water in it at all times... How many gallons do you need to run all the pumps? I am thinking you just need poly tank with a minimum 2 inch pipe connection to the pool, 2.5 or 3 inch will move more water.. If you put the top of the tank above the waterline of the pool it will fill the tank to the exact height of the pool.. Then you only need to find out how much water your pumps will pull out of the barrel at once and get a barrel with enough water capacity and big enough to install all the pumps in it...

An auto pool filler uses the same exact tech to fill the pool... Basically follow these instructions for your tank

This one is 220 gallons

Use one of these and cut a hole in the side of the tank at the exact level of the pipe coming from the pool

Use this one to connect to that part

The tank can not be air tight as the water will naturally flow to the tank

Hope this helps :)

By the way, thanks for the link to that company, I do Christmas lights and now I want some of these for the pool.. Are you also going to have Addressable module in pool lights to match what your doing with the pumps?
Hi cowboycasey,

Thanks for the tips.

To confirm the method you suggested, I simply use gravity to pull water from pool water line to the top of my tank so they will always equalize in water level.

As long as the flows of my pumps are less than the flow of the supply pipe, I will always have enough water, correct?

Since the waterline of pool will be below ground, I shall dig a hole on the ground and put the tank in the ground as well?

You're welcome about the link. I'm actually not using fontana's products. I didn't inquire but I imagine it'd cost a fortune as they mainly serve commercial customers.

I'm actually using a lot of the same technology stack as Christmas light show and repurpose for my dancing fountain. For example, Vixen player, FalconPi Player. The pumps I use are DMX512 addressable plus DMX512 LED lights. If you're interested, I'll share more about pumps and lights I use and the seller information.

What water features are you looking to integrate? Integrating with the pool is giving me a lot of stress right now since I don't want to screw up my $150k pool build with my hacks. Each of my pump does 48GPM at max speed and I need at least 4 pumps. A 3" pipe seems to do 140gpm with gravity flow...

Here it is in action
 
Last edited:

cowboycasey

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 3, 2013
5,930
Southern OK
You are correct but you want the pipe at the middle/bottom of your tank and the top of your tank about 3 to 5 inches above your water level.. So if you can pull 200 gallons of water out a minute you really want a bigger tank of water to hold more water at 1 time so the water can equalize better...

Lets get some pro help on the size of pipe to pull the amount of water you need.. Because it will be gravity pulling/pushing the water I have no idea how to figure out how much will flow through.. I am hoping @mas985 may know :)

I wonder if this 525 gallon tank would be a great fit, no way your going to empty it in 2 minutes as long as we can get the flow figured out.. the top 3 inches would be the only thing sticking out of the ground and it has an 18 inch opening... :)

 
  • Like
Reactions: johnkim2020

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support

johnkim2020

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2020
49
Canada
That will give you a big air leak in your suction line since normally it will not have water in it.
For the gravity return line, can it just be a simple 1.5" pipe going to pool?

Is this diagram correct?
 

Attachments

  • pool-diagram.png
    pool-diagram.png
    7.5 KB · Views: 3

johnkim2020

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2020
49
Canada
You are correct but you want the pipe at the middle/bottom of your tank and the top of your tank about 3 to 5 inches above your water level.. So if you can pull 200 gallons of water out a minute you really want a bigger tank of water to hold more water at 1 time so the water can equalize better...

Lets get some pro help on the size of pipe to pull the amount of water you need.. Because it will be gravity pulling/pushing the water I have no idea how to figure out how much will flow through.. I am hoping @mas985 may know :)

I wonder if this 525 gallon tank would be a great fit, no way your going to empty it in 2 minutes as long as we can get the flow figured out.. the top 3 inches would be the only thing sticking out of the ground and it has an 18 inch opening... :)


Thank you! I will have to look at the proper water tank size and see if it is feasible to bury it.
 

cowboycasey

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 3, 2013
5,930
Southern OK
For the gravity return line, can it just be a simple 1.5" pipe going to pool?

Is this diagram correct?
Nope your tank will be a completely separate system from your pump and filter.. Your pump and and filter will only be connected to the pool..

The tank will have a pipe connecting it that will keep the same exact level of water in it as the pool..

I see another issue.. Where is your water feature at? I thought it was going back into the pool but on the diagram you have it away from it? Is it not connected to the pool?