Hot Springs > switch from Frog @ease to Nature 2/dichlor bleach method

wireform

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In The Industry
Aug 15, 2017
3,304
Spring Valley, NY
I called King Technologies to inquire about the TC and CC levels and they did confirm those will show extremely high on a standard drop test kit as that's the "reserve" amount of chlorine necessary to keep the FC range at a constant .5-1ppm using the Frog system.

So even though my water is only a month old I think it's best at this point to drain and refill again before changing to the bleach method rather than try to lower the TC and CC levels by upwards of 10ppm.
I'm not sure I understand why you need a drain. Your numbers in post#12 aren't telling me you need to drain. Just adjust your levels up per TFP levels and you will be fine.
 

djmcphee

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Mar 5, 2021
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Washington state
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I'm not sure I understand why you need a drain. Your numbers in post#12 aren't telling me you need to drain. Just adjust your levels up per TFP levels and you will be fine.
The reason I was thinking drain was the high TC and CC numbers. If I'm understanding correctly they should be under 1ppm on the dichlor/bleach method and I'm testing higher than the Taylor kit can read. I'm assuming I'm upwards of 10ppm on those values. Also TA is 80 instead of the recommended 50 (which is what my base water tests at). I figured it would be easier to drain than to try getting those numbers in check plus it gives me another opportunity to purge with aahsome. I'm still new to all this as I said so the whole slamming process I don't quite understand.
 

wireform

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In The Industry
Aug 15, 2017
3,304
Spring Valley, NY
Well for starters we don't condone the frog system. I'd just get rid of or atleast take the cartridge out and leave it empty. Get the cya up manually to with stabilizer but do not overshoot 30 ppm. Make sure PH is around 7.2ppm before you begin a slam. We don't drain water for TA of 80. You're in The ballpark.
 
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djmcphee

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Mar 5, 2021
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Washington state
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I went ahead with the aahsome purge and drain/refill and my numbers pre-adding anything are as follows:

TA 50ppm
pH 6.5
CH 50ppm
CYA 0
FC 0
TC 0
CC 0

TA looks to be spot on
pH - it says in the guide to raise by aeration, I'm not seeing a huge change with that... is it okay to use pH increaser?
CH needs to be raised with 5oz of calcium (so 10tbsp if I'm calculating correctly)?
Boric acid shows to add 14oz - does that sound right? Just seems like a ton compared to other chemicals...
Shock w/Dichlor to 10ppm - 1oz (2tbsp if I'm calculating correctly)?

Tub is 355gal
 

Mdragger88

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Jun 1, 2018
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how long have u been aerating? Running the jets full blast right?

U can Leave ch alone unless u have a foaming issue
The dichlor will lower your ph so just put 3 ppm in for now until your ph is in the 7’s
 

djmcphee

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Mar 5, 2021
18
Washington state
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355
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Well here are the numbers today after balancing last night and putting in 5ppm chlorine to start instead of 10ppm.

TA 60ish ppm
pH 7.5
CH 150ppm
FC 1
TC 2
CC 1

I have no way to test the borates but I put in what the calculator said to so I'm assuming that is fairly close. I assume the TA increase was from the boric acid?

Hopefully the hard part is done and now will just have to manage the chlorine and watch for pH changes.

Thanks again to everyone that's been responding. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right to keep things safe for my family.
 
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dan1333

Gold Supporter
Nov 1, 2020
51
Orange, CA
Looks good to me! Glad you kept with it, now that you're balanced and you determine your usage patterns and free chlorine use, it'll kinda be on autopilot and you'll learn how much bleach you need to dump in every day and/or after each use.

I finally got to that point and I feel like I have a good grasp on how my water behaves and what it needs without having to test non stop like I was in the beginning.
 
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Mdragger88

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U could go ahead & go to 10 ppm w/ some dichlor now since your ph is normal range.
Keep tabs of how much cya the dichlor is adding & switch to bleach when u get to 30 or so
PoolMath effects of adding or the summary function will help w/ this
 

waterl0gged

Well-known member
May 12, 2014
195
Central PA
I can't use the saltron since my tub is still under warranty and adding that would void it (according to HotSprings/Watkins).

Funny , because HotSprings has a Saltwater SWG system built into some of their tubs . Cant see them voiding a warranty on only some of their tubs due to salt water , when other ones have it from the factory . Hot Springs "Freshwater Salt System"

If at all possible, go with a Saltron Mini . It will be the best , easiest way to maintain FC in your hot tub . The salt content is so minimal , you really cant tell its a salt tub. We have had people over that are shocked when I tell them its a saltwater tub .

We have had a Saltron Mini on our brand new Strong hot tub since day one, with no ill effects . It - Just - Works !
It is so consisitant when you get the setting dialed in, that I literally forget to check the FC for a while . It keeps it rock solid .

After trying MANY different hot tub sanitation types over the years of owning hot tubs , the Saltron Mini is the easiest way to get perfect stabile FC results for a hot tub.

We have a SWCG in our pool AND hot tub now for that reason . We would NEVER go back .
 
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djmcphee

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Funny , because HotSprings has a Saltwater SWG system built into some of their tubs . Cant see them voiding a warranty on only some of their tubs due to salt water , when other ones have it from the factory . Hot Springs "Freshwater Salt System"

If at all possible, go with a Saltron Mini . It will be the best , easiest way to maintain FC in your hot tub . The salt content is so minimal , you really cant tell its a salt tub. We have had people over that are shocked when I tell them its a saltwater tub .

We have had a Saltron Mini on our brand new Strong hot tub since day one, with no ill effects . It - Just - Works !
It is so consisitant when you get the setting dialed in, that I literally forget to check the FC for a while . It keeps it rock solid .

After trying MANY different hot tub sanitation types over the years of owning hot tubs , the Saltron Mini is the easiest way to get perfect stabile FC results for a hot tub.

We have a SWCG in our pool AND hot tub now for that reason . We would NEVER go back .
They do offer the freshwater system in some of their spas yeah. I wet tested one when we bought our current tub.

Here is the snip from my owners manual which leads me to believe adding the saltron would void the warranty.

I'll probably go that route once the warranty is over but for now I'd rather be safe than sorry.
 

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djmcphee

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It's been over a week now and so far I've only had to add in a total of 14ppm dichlor including the initial shock. It hardly seems to be losing any FC. Granted we don't use the tub a ton but does that seem normal? My tub does have ozone and I read that can eat FC (I can't turn it on or off it just comes on when the pumps kick on).

I used the tub once by myself and saw a drop of 1ppm TC.

The tub has been holding around 5ppm
 
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Mdragger88

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That’s good 👍🏻 Just keep on maintaining & stop the dichlor when u reach 30 ppm cya. You’ll get a feel for its fc demand & how much gets used each soak. You’ll also notice when demand goes higher as u near flush/drain/refill time.
 

djmcphee

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Still seems to be going well. So far I'm at +22ppm dichlor. Each time I use the tub I add in 1tsp of dichlor. It's maintaining around 4ppm FC, all other chem balances normal.

I picked up bleach today hoping someone can confirm I got the right stuff (pic attached).

I didn't see anything about splashless and don't see a mention of scented. It's marked 7.55% sodium hypochlorite 7.17% available chlorine. Just wanted to confirm this is good before I make the switch
 

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Mdragger88

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Still seems to be going well. So far I'm at +22ppm dichlor. Each time I use the tub I add in 1tsp of dichlor. It's maintaining around 4ppm FC, all other chem balances normal.

I picked up bleach today hoping someone can confirm I got the right stuff (pic attached).

I didn't see anything about splashless and don't see a mention of scented. It's marked 7.55% sodium hypochlorite 7.17% available chlorine. Just wanted to confirm this is good before I make the switch
It may cause foaming as it has “cloromax” in it which is a fabric conditioner - so we generally tell people to avoid clorox products because of this. Look for a generic or pool chlorinating liquid @ walmart, home depot, lowes, etc
7EC28DB9-CC71-4A7A-AE53-68BF6B1E9ED0.jpeg
 
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dan1333

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Nov 1, 2020
51
Orange, CA
Yeah I had a heck of a time finding normal bleach. Even if it doesn't explicitly say it has an additive it says stuff like "keeps whites whiter long than other brands of bleach" which I take to mean it has some kind of additive. All "plain" bleaches in the laundry section of stores say that kind of stuff now. I gave up and just bought pool chlorine from Walmart. I saw Lowe's has pool chlorine too under the kemtek brand.

It's a dollar or two more expensive (still cheap) but it's also a little stronger (10% chlorine).
 
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jseyfert3

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Yeah I had a heck of a time finding normal bleach. Even if it doesn't explicitly say it has an additive it says stuff like "keeps whites whiter long than other brands of bleach" which I take to mean it has some kind of additive. All "plain" bleaches in the laundry section of stores say that kind of stuff now. I gave up and just bought pool chlorine from Walmart. I saw Lowe's has pool chlorine too under the kemtek brand.

It's a dollar or two more expensive (still cheap) but it's also a little stronger (10% chlorine).
Pool chlorine is usually a better deal for total amount of chlorine vs bleach (if you can even find the appropriate plain bleach). Especially if you're talking about the new 81 oz containers that Clorox is coming in when pool chlorine comes in full gallons (128 oz). I don't know what you pay, but for example if you had:
  • 81 oz of 7.5% for $3, that's 81*0.075 = 6.075 oz of NaOCl -> $3/6.075 = $0.49/oz.
  • 121 oz of 7.5% for $3, that's 121*0.075 = 9.075 oz -> $3/6.075 = $0.33/oz.
  • 128 oz of 10% for $4, that's 128*0.1 = 12.8 oz -> $4/12.8 = $0.31/oz.
Or get the PoolMath app for your phone and it has this calculator built in which makes it really easy to calculate out what is the best price.
69457071-7F0B-4879-910E-250C0A34C447.png
 

djmcphee

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Mar 5, 2021
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Washington state
Pool Size
355
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Thanks for the replies, looks like the bleach will be going back. Hopefully this stuff is correct it's all I could find locally? Walmart had this.

I'm almost to the 34ppm dichlor after a months usage. Seems like that took a while to reach but we're almost there.
 

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Mdragger88

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Thanks for the replies, looks like the bleach will be going back. Hopefully this stuff is correct it's all I could find locally? Walmart had this.

I'm almost to the 34ppm dichlor after a months usage. Seems like that took a while to that’s the stuff 👍🏻 They also have it at Home Depot, lowes, etc. be sure to grab an extra near the end of pool season so you’ll have it through the winter as its a seasonal item.

to clarify: you’ve added approximately 34ppm of fc from dichlor? Which would be about 32 ppm of cya. The cya should register on your test now.
EA1088EB-945E-4BFC-89B1-CACEAB80264E.jpg
Also please fill out your signature- it really helps us help u quickly. If you turn your phone sideways you can see mine for reference. Create Your Signature - Further Reading
 

Mdragger88

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Pool Size
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I dunno what happened to the top part of my post -
But yes - that’s the stuff 👍🏻 They also have it at Home Depot, lowes, etc. be sure to grab an extra near the end of pool season so you’ll have it through the winter as its a seasonal item.
 

djmcphee

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Mar 5, 2021
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Washington state
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Appreciate everyone's follow-ups for this noobie. Signature added :)

To clarify yes, I've added just over 6tbsp dichlor over the past month which should be around the 3oz mark. I'll go ahead and do the CYA test again to see if it registers now.

It took a while to reach that because I only had to put in 1tsp post soaking by myself, or 2tsp if my wife was using it with me. Sometimes we go a few days between uses and it was holding the FC pretty well and only registered a drop after the third or fourth day of non use.

If I'm using the calculator correctly it looks like the 10% liquid chlorine should go a long ways - about 1/2oz per +1ppm FC. Does it have a shelf life? I bought two gallons since they had it.

Edit just completed testing:

CYA - just over 30ppm
TA between 50-60ppm (color shifted after 5 drops to pink/green, 6th turned it fully pink)
pH - 7.5
FC - 2ppm
TC/CC - (used MPS yesterday after a party soak, so those values will not be correct yet as I don't have the MPS regent)
Hardness - Should be 150ppm (I've had minimal water additions since adding the calcium increaser on the initial fill)

Looks like it's time to switch!
 
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