High CYA - what to do first

OK, here it is, 10PM PST and it's at 5ppm again LMAO

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5ppm from the first test, which I then re-tested with brand new reagents (my test kit is only about 5 months old but I am running low on this reagent after the SLAM), and then side by side against the drop test.
 
This CYA test is driving me nuts. I've checked it at full strength w/ 15mL, then tried diluted, tried it in the sun, in the shade, standing on my head, etc.

There are times when I can see the dot clearly but then the problem is I can't tell when the dot fades away or if I'm supposed to be looking at a completely cloudy water vial before the dot is "gone." Once I get to about 90 CYA it's cloudy and doesn't completely become white until around 60 CYA. So somewhere between 60 and 90 I can sometimes see what I think is a hazy dot or undefined blackishness where I know the dot is located and it's more or less clear depending on angle, quickly glancing vs. staring at it, I even went the other way with the tube full and pouring some off until I could see the dot.

The question I have is whether the FC being at 5ppm regardless of whether I set the SWG for 60% or 75% is indicative that my CYA is lower than I tested? Could I be somewhere closer to 60 CYA and my FC is burning off through the day even though I'm over-producing and sitting rock solid at 5ppm (5 this morning test and 5 at 1:30pm in the hottest, sunniest part of the day)?

I added two pounds, which should take me from 60 to 75 if I'm actually that low.
 
Even at 60 ppm CYA your FC is very well protected from the sun. The difference between 80 and 60 is noticeable in terms of FC management, but it's a not a spectacular difference. I run four pools, and for three of them I use 40 to 50 ppm CYA with no trouble. We're at 33 degrees of latitude and get weeks of stifling hot weather and near vertical sunshine.

As far as the test, I'm sure you've read all the tips about CYA testing. A few that made a difference for me include glancing instead of staring. So I look away, then quickly glance to see if I detect the dot. I do the test several times by pouring the sample back in the mixing vial and then repeating the pour. I hold by the top of the tube so light can get into the column of water, but without any direct sun lighting up the dot.

How high is your bather load (hrs of swimming, number of adults, number of kids) per day?
 
Well, if it's staying at 5 and above, it should be fine. Maybe your CYA was at 60 as you said. I would increase to 90% for a week and see how it goes.

Your daily FC depletion is certainly on the high side. I'm wondering if you have a hidden algae farm somewhere, e.g. behind the skimmer weir, under ladder rungs, that type of thing. I'll put up the bat signal and get someone else to read through the thread to be sure nothing is getting missed. Could you post up a full set of numbers, including salt and water temp? Thanks.
 
My wife and I have been taking our 2 year old in the pool for about an hour a day.

Tonight, after running at 75% from 7am to 8pm, it ended with 5.5ppm.

They say there are two kinds of scuba divers. Those that pee in their wetsuits, and those that lie about it. I imagine it's the same for 2-year-old swimmers! Better factor that in to your FC loss!! ;)
 
When you keep saying your FC is 5 at the end of the day - are you using that OTO color block tester you've pictured above or are you getting that number from the FAS/DPD test (the one where you add powder and it turns pink)?
 
The FAS/DPD test is also in the picture and the only test I am using to report numbers in this thread. The OTO test was simply to verify the drop test results but also the results seem to indicate somewhat higher than 5ppm. Although I guess the picture isn't as clear as I had hoped, the results are much darker than the block. Anyway, it's not important I'm not using it for anything other than a visual.

The pool is not on an autofill and does not have a ladder, a weir, or much of anything that would be able to hide much--it's all plaster with built-in steps. The lights are out of their niches on the deck. Besides that, I have been checking the chlorine level in the morning (even though I haven't been reporting it in the thread) and reported to you in post #40 that I've passed every OCLT I've done this past week.

Here are my full test numbers:
pH 7.6
TA 110
CH 550
CYA ~75
Salt 3800
Water temp 82F
 
Yup! I saw all of that, I just wanted to make sure we weren't relying on the OTO test - and we're not, so that's great. :)

You're passing OCLTs, lights are out of niches, etc so I think we can likely rule out anything growing in there, that's also good. I would check inside the skimmer(s) as well - run your finger around the walls, on/in/under the skimmer basket, inside and under the diverter plate in the bottom (if you have one) and see if anything feels slimy or looks yucky.

If not, that just leaves us with a funny burn rate. Can you please test chlorine right before you swim and see where you're sitting then for us please? I've had an hour's swimming with my kids really tank my FC levels in the past and I'm curious if it's the bather load that is causing problems.
 

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I run about 50 but I don't have a salt system. JoyfulNoise is also in Tucson and runs about 70-80 without a salt system.

I usually lose around 3-4ppm a day. Joyful has reported a loss of 1-2ppm at his CYA level. I'll likely be boosting mine this summer to around 70.

Don't forget to check for slimy feeling/algae inside your skimmers!
 
Actually, you can test, because everyone is going away. Can you stay out of the pool for the weekend? Keep doing what you've been doing (testing, dosing) and see if the FC stabilizes with no one in your pool. If it does, then bather load is the culprit. If it doesn't, then you'll know it's something else.

Couple other ideas (though these may have been covered, I kinda skimmed your thread).

Are you sure about the age of the chlorine your using? Do you know how to check?

Have you bought it from just one source, one batch? Or have you been getting it from different places?

Even if you're chlorine dates are good, it doesn't mean your chlorine is. A badly handled pallet of chlorine (like left out in the sun for too long somewhere along its delivery route) can trash a brand new palette of chlorine. So if you bought a big supply, and have been using only that, even if the dates are OK, you might have a bad batch. Try buying the next round from a different source, different brand, with freshest dates you can find.

What about the expiration dates on your reagents? I think the TF kits don't have any. So you might be stuck there. When did you buy your kit/reagent replacements? We just solved a mystery testing problem in another thread: it was expired reagents. You might consider buying another batch of the two FC testing reagents, to help rule that out, even if you're sure what you have is not expired. You never know. You'll probably need some anyway, as you burn through what you have now, so that's not money wasted if it turns out the reagents are not the problem.

This is just basic troubleshooting logic. You solve the simplest, likeliest first. If that doesn't work, you have to go after the less likely. Then finally the next-to-impossible.

PS. I was only half-joking earlier. Your little darling is "acclimating" in your pool. I don't know if a 2-year-old can output enough "acclimation" to skew FC, but that seems to be a pretty obvious/likely factor... Sweat, suntan lotion, and "other things" that might float off your body (think about it) all contribute as "bather load." You don't have to be swimming and splashing to use up chlorine, standing waist deep can use up plenty. You'll know after the weekend...
 
Actually, you can test, because everyone is going away. Can you stay out of the pool for the weekend? Keep doing what you've been doing (testing, dosing) and see if the FC stabilizes with no one in your pool. If it does, then bather load is the culprit. If it doesn't, then you'll know it's something else.

Couple other ideas (though these may have been covered, I kinda skimmed your thread).

Are you sure about the age of the chlorine your using? Do you know how to check?

Have you bought it from just one source, one batch? Or have you been getting it from different places?

Even if you're chlorine dates are good, it doesn't mean your chlorine is. A badly handled pallet of chlorine (like left out in the sun for too long somewhere along its delivery route) can trash a brand new palette of chlorine. So if you bought a big supply, and have been using only that, even if the dates are OK, you might have a bad batch. Try buying the next round from a different source, different brand, with freshest dates you can find.

What about the expiration dates on your reagents? I think the TF kits don't have any. So you might be stuck there. When did you buy your kit/reagent replacements? We just solved a mystery testing problem in another thread: it was expired reagents. You might consider buying another batch of the two FC testing reagents, to help rule that out, even if you're sure what you have is not expired. You never know. You'll probably need some anyway, as you burn through what you have now, so that's not money wasted if it turns out the reagents are not the problem.

This is just basic troubleshooting logic. You solve the simplest, likeliest first. If that doesn't work, you have to go after the less likely. Then finally the next-to-impossible.

PS. I was only half-joking earlier. Your little darling is "acclimating" in your pool. I don't know if a 2-year-old can output enough "acclimation" to skew FC, but that seems to be a pretty obvious/likely factor... You'll know after the weekend...

Dirk - he's using an SWG for most of it, and performing an OCLT. Reagents are new.
 
Dirk - he's using an SWG for most of it, and performing an OCLT. Reagents are new.

Then switch to chlorine and buy newer reagents. If there's no algae, and it's not bather load, then you gotta start trying the less likely, no?

Sorry, shouldn't have jumped in the middle without reading more carefully. Just some random thoughts...
 
My test kit was new as of October and my reagents for this test have an expiration date of next year. I've tested with the kit, the new reagents, and the color block and they all agree. There's no sliminess in the skimmer.
 
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Is the pump speed changing at all during these run times?

What is the pump RPM range that you are using?

Are you switching to spa mode at all during the day?
The pump runs at 1460 rpm from 7am to 8pm and 1350 overnight. I'm tempted to set my SWG to generate at a lower percentage 24 hours to see whether that's better.

I'm not using spa mode yet, but I do have it set to spillway a few times per day to change the spa water out periodically. Probably easier to just show my schedule:
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