Help Understanding Valve Alignment

[f3justusc]

I just had a new pool installed and my builder did not label the lines. He quickly told me but with everything going on, I retained very little. I know the valve on the left is for the pool skimmer and drain. I know the 3rd valve from the left is for the hot tub overflow. That is all that I know. Any help with identifying the valves would be greatly appreciated.

 

[HermanTX]

Starting at the left side of the photo. This is your suction side.
The 2 pipes are from your skimmer and main drain. The valve between them can be turned to balance the suction. I usually set mine at 75% open to Skimmer and 25% open to the main drain. This way you have more skimmer action and you always have some suction from the bottom of the pool.

The Second valve controls suction between the pool (noted above) and the spa which is the main drain. Note that the valve is CLOSED to the spa pipe. So in this position you have all suction from the pool and no suction from the spa. It is best to leave it in this position. This is called the Pool Mode on the suction side.

On the right side of the photo is the return pipes to the pool and spa. The left pipe is a return to the jets in the spa. The valve next to it is the valve that controls whether flow goes to the spa or to the pool. Right now the SPA side is CLOSED so this valve is in Pool Mode. If you partially open the valve, the flow will go to the spa as well as to the pool. This will cause the spillover from the spa to the pool.

The 4th valve (or the one on the farthest right) controls the return flow to either the pool wall returns or to some other feature. Do you have a water feature? The valve has one of the pipes CLOSED so you can rotate it 180 degrees and see what flows. Normally there is only one pipe that goes to the pool wall returns. We need to determine what the pipe flows to.

There are 3 modes for a pool and spa setup.
Pool Mode - the suction is only from the pool and return is only to the pool
Spa Mode - the suction is only from the spa and return is only to the spa
Spillover Mode - the suction is only from the pool and return is to the spa. You can have return to both pool and spa but the spillover will not be as great because some of the water is being diverted directly to the pool returns.

Currently in your photo - the valves are in Spillover Mode - almost. This is the second and third valve (the middle 2 valves) that control the 3 modes.

That 2nd valve which controls suction from the spa or the pool appears to be partial open to both - so you would be pulling water from both but only returning water to the pool - so your spa could drain as there is no incoming water. Note the 3rd valve is CLOSED to the spa and full open to the pool side

Hope this helps and lets see what that other return is to the pool that is currently CLOSED on the far right side.

 

[DrewLG]

There are 3 modes for a pool and spa setup.
Pool Mode - the suction is only from the pool and return is only to the pool
Spa Mode - the suction is only from the spa and return is only to the spa
Spillover Mode - the suction is only from the pool and return is to the spa. You can have return to both pool and spa but the spillover will not be as great because some of the water is being diverted directly to the pool returns.

I'd add a small note to @HermanTX's thorough explanation:

There are actually FOUR modes: The three desirable ones listed above, plus a potentially disastrous "Spa Drain" mode where the suction is only from the spa and the return is only (or even partially) to the pool. In this mode, the spa will eventually empty and the pump will run dry, which can severely damage the pump. So be careful to always ensure that whenever the Suction valve is turned to the spa side, the Return valve is fully turned to the spa side as well.

 

[HermanTX]

I'd add a small note to @HermanTX's thorough explanation:

There are actually FOUR modes: The three desirable ones listed above, plus a potentially disastrous "Spa Drain" mode where the suction is only from the spa and the return is only (or even partially) to the pool. In this mode, the spa will eventually empty and the pump will run dry, which can severely damage the pump. So be careful to always ensure that whenever the Suction valve is turned to the spa side, the Return valve is fully turned to the spa side as well.

Thanks. Actually, the DRAIN the SPA MODE is what the equipment is in right now per the photo and what I was trying to explain - see below - Your explanation is much better.

"Currently in your photo - the valves are in Spillover Mode - almost. This is the second and third valve (the middle 2 valves) that control the 3 modes.

That 2nd valve which controls suction from the spa or the pool appears to be partial open to both - so you would be pulling water from both but only returning water to the pool - so your spa could drain as there is no incoming water. Note the 3rd valve is CLOSED to the spa and full open to the pool side"

 

[f3justusc]

Thanks. Actually, the DRAIN the SPA MODE is what the equipment is in right now per the photo and what I was trying to explain - see below - Your explanation is much better.

"Currently in your photo - the valves are in Spillover Mode - almost. This is the second and third valve (the middle 2 valves) that control the 3 modes.

That 2nd valve which controls suction from the spa or the pool appears to be partial open to both - so you would be pulling water from both but only returning water to the pool - so your spa could drain as there is no incoming water. Note the 3rd valve is CLOSED to the spa and full open to the pool side"

The way that I have the valves right now is so that I can get the spa to spill over into the pool with full force. It seems if I change any of the valves from the positions shown in the photo, the spillover stops. There is water coming into the hot tub return, I checked. Maybe I need to get my pool guy back over here????????

 

[Jimrahbe]

The way that I have the valves right now is so that I can get the spa to spill over into the pool with full force.

F3,

Something is very wrong, as your current set up should be sucking water out of the spa..

Let's do a couple of quick tests..

Turn the Intake valve (right in front of your pump) so that the handle points straight left in your pic.

Do that and tell me what happens.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[f3justusc]

F3,

Something is very wrong, as your current set up should be sucking water out of the spa..

Let's do a couple of quick tests..

Turn the Intake valve (right in front of your pump) so that the handle points straight left in your pic.

Do that and tell me what happens.

Thanks,

Jim R.

You were correct, valving was very wrong. Yes, the Spa Drain was open. I took the information you all provided and went out there for about 15 minutes, cycled valves, and checked the pool/spa for the outcome. Now, I have the pool returns and the spa return putting water in, the overflow is working, and the drains are slightly open. One thing that I realized, which eluded me due to so many things in play at the same time is that I was thinking the spa was not overflowing because of valving. I missed a very obvious problem, the filter was plugged and that is why I was not getting overflow. The plaster produces a lot of dust and now, I am cleaning the filter at least 2x each day. Thanks to everyone for all your feedback. You pointed me in the right direction and I gained the courage to just get out there and figure it out!

 

[f3justusc]

I have two additional questions. I am absolutely having the builder add one check valve to stop the spa from draining when the pump is off. I also want him to add a drain port so that I can quickly lower the pool level during hurricane season, instead of draining via the filter.

Based on the setup shown in my original photo, do you see anything else that is needed in the current setup? After the 30-day cure, he will come and add the heater and salt chlorinator cell. Is there anything that I should have him add *(check valve, drain, etc.) when he comes to do that work?

 

[HermanTX]

Based on the setup shown in my original photo, do you see anything else that is needed in the current setup? After the 30-day cure, he will come and add the heater and salt chlorinator cell. Is there anything that I should have him add *(check valve, drain, etc.) when he comes to do that work?

I had a earlier question below
"The 4th valve (or the one on the farthest right) controls the return flow to either the pool wall returns or to some other feature. Do you have a water feature? The valve has one of the pipes CLOSED so you can rotate it 180 degrees and see what flows. Normally there is only one pipe that goes to the pool wall returns. We need to determine what the pipe flows to."

I also want him to add a drain port so that I can quickly lower the pool level during hurricane season, instead of draining via the filter.

This is a good idea and it should be between the pump exit and the filter. PB needs to use the same type of valve as the existing 4 valves.

he will come and add the heater and salt chlorinator cell.

Will he add a pad to put the heater on? You could request him to put in a heater bypass since they have to redo all the plumbing.

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Also - which model SWCG are you getting? It should be rated for 2x your pool volume.

Also, please update your signature with the new information on heater, SWCG and include the pool volume in addition to the dimensions you show.

 

[f3justusc]

F3,

Something is very wrong, as your current set up should be sucking water out of the spa..

Let's do a couple of quick tests..

Turn the Intake valve (right in front of your pump) so that the handle points straight left in your pic.

Do that and tell me what happens.

Thanks,

Jim R.

That 4th valve seems to control the spa jets. The flow is quite weak and my builder says he will need to install a booster pump.

 

[f3justusc]

I had a earlier question below
"The 4th valve (or the one on the farthest right) controls the return flow to either the pool wall returns or to some other feature. Do you have a water feature? The valve has one of the pipes CLOSED so you can rotate it 180 degrees and see what flows. Normally there is only one pipe that goes to the pool wall returns. We need to determine what the pipe flows to."


This is a good idea and it should be between the pump exit and the filter. PB needs to use the same type of valve as the existing 4 valves.


Will he add a pad to put the heater on? You could request him to put in a heater bypass since they have to redo all the plumbing.

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Also - which model SWCG are you getting? It should be rated for 2x your pool volume.

Also, please update your signature with the new information on heater, SWCG and include the pool volume in addition to the dimensions you show.

Thanks for the information. I do not know the brand of SWCG. He simply says that he has one for me. This build was based on "a guy who knows a guy", which saved me a small fortune so I did not get to select many of the items that were used. Yes, he will definitely bring a pad for the heater. The pad that the pump and filter are on was intended for the heater but since we need to wait 30 days, he used it for the equipment.

 

[HermanTX]

That 4th valve seems to control the spa jets. The flow is quite weak and my builder says he will need to install a booster pump.

Before you spend money on a spa jet pump - Let’s test something. Turn the 2nd and the 3rd valve such that the handles face each other . The word CLOSED will be facing the 1st and 4th valves. This would place it in Spa Mode. How strong are the spa jets?

 

[f3justusc]

I get nothing. No flow at all so once again what I believe to be true about the valves is not. My builder is going to have to come back and properly label the valves. Thanks for all your help!!

 

[HermanTX]

I get nothing. No flow at all so once again what I believe to be true about the valves is not. My builder is going to have to come back and properly label the valves. Thanks for all your help!!

Well that is not good. You could just do multiple test. Something had to be flowing in this most recent test. Did you try to determine that? Basically trial and error to figure it out. Always ensure you have at least 1 suction line open to the pump and 1 return line open.

 

[f3justusc]

Well that is not good. You could just do multiple test. Something had to be flowing in this most recent test. Did you try to determine that? Basically trial and error to figure it out. Always ensure you have at least 1 suction line open to the pump and 1 return line open.

The builder will be here tomorrow. I understand about 65% maybe but some just don't do what I think they should. I will post a photo once they are identified.

 

[HermanTX]

The builder will be here tomorrow. I understand about 65% maybe but some just don't do what I think they should. I will post a photo once they are identified.

OK. Put your phone on record and record the whole conversation. Also have a sticky pad and marker so you can tag all the lines.
We can help with any further questions if they come up after your meeting.
Find out when the PB will install the heater and SWCG because that will require some replumbing.
Ask him to install a heater bypass when the heater is installed

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[f3justusc]

OK. Put your phone on record and record the whole conversation. Also have a sticky pad and marker so you can tag all the lines.
We can help with any further questions if they come up after your meeting.
Find out when the PB will install the heater and SWCG because that will require some replumbing.
Ask him to install a heater bypass when the heater is installed

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

I read this too late so nothing was recorded but, all valves are labeled. The heater and swg will be installed the end of July.

 

[HermanTX]

I read this too late so nothing was recorded but, all valves are labeled. The heater and swg will be installed the end of July.

OK the labeling greatly helps. We had the return side wrong initially. The photo shows that the system is in spillover mode.
The 3rd valve from the left is partially open so there is flow to the pool and to the spa and the spa should be spilling over to the pool.
If you only want the spa jets, then you would first look at the suction side and turn the 2nd valve 180 deg so you only have suction from the spa. Then on the return side you have first turn the 3rd valve so the pool return is closed off and only return to the spa. Then turn the 4th valve 180 deg so that it is only open to the spa jets. This will give you full circulation of the spa through the spa jets.

Let us know of any other questions.

 

[f3justusc]

Thanks so much for all your help!! Yes, it's in spillover. After they installed the check valve I was still losing level when the pump shut off. Not as much but a few inches. I could also hear water moving through the skimmer/ floor drain valve. I thought maybe the valve was defective. I'm happy to report the next night, the spa held its level all night without any issues. Perhaps, the lines needed to equalize. Either way, all is perfect here. 2 weeks of brushing 2x/day is over, I've gotten better at using the valves for the right setup.

Now, I'm working on getting the PH under control. Muriatic acid and aeration until it dips. They say this is the way with new plaster.

 

[BDY]

Muriatic acid lowers pH and TA. Aeration raises pH. Are you trying to control pH or TA? If pH those two together will work against each other ….