Help selecting VS pump in MA

[katarn444]

I am a new pool owner with only one summer under my belt. The previous owner left me with a mess that I am trying to clean up. I replumbed everything last year (2" with proper fittings unions etc) added a SWG but kept the original pump which I now want to replace. I think it is a Hayward Superpump with a 3/4 Century motor (but maybe used to have 1hp motor.) I am looing for a VS primarily for electricity savings (MA $.33/kwh) but also additional flow. I think the 3/4 hp was right on the edge of being able to run my setup. I looked the pump over thoroughly and the only model number/specs I could find was "SP 1600 AA"

28000 gallon 2 skimmers(1 1/2"), 3 jets (2"), 1 main drain (2")
Hayward Superpump with 3/4 hp 220V Century motor
RJ60 SWG
60cf DE filter
Might add a heater this year
No automation

1) Does anyone have experience with the MA massave VS pool pump rebate? I am struggling to find details. If I can get the rebate I would consider a Hayward VS Super pump 1.65 hp but am concerned I would not be getting the highest possible energy savings, everything I read says get the highest HP VSP possible and run it at low rpm.

2) I am leary of the Calimar Wasterway Black and decker options but also don't want to spend top dollar on Tristar or Whisperflo. I am considering Nidec Neptune on a Hayward Superpump Housing but am confused by the different impellers and diffusers. I would consider taking my current pump out, keeping it as backup, and buying a used Super pump housing (with correct specs) and then adding a Neptune to it but I need to make sure I buy a housing with the correct interior bits.

Thanks for all the help

 

[Newdude]

If I can get the rebate I would consider a Hayward VS Super pump 1.65 hp but am concerned I would not be getting the highest possible energy savings, everything I read says get the highest HP VSP possible and run it at low rpm.

1.5 / 1.65 HP variable speed pumps save most of the energy of the 2.7 / 3 HPs. Often times the jump in price between the two doesn't justify going larger if cost is the sole concern.

90% of the savings is getting into the game in the first place. 90% vs 95% savings is much less of a biggie.

At the current prices, and the Calimars going as strong as the flagships for several years to date, I'd go Calimar if my intelliflo died tomorrow. I could buy almost 5 of them some days if I needed to, which i likely wouldny.

I would not pay the premium for the Calimar sister clones.

 

[setsailsoon]

Hi Kat,

You certainly have a lot of choices. You mention no automation. Is this the plan going forward or do you plan to add any automation in the future. I've used major brands Jandy and Pentair as well as off branded third party that has a good reputation here for warranty support. And I've had good success with all of them. Variable speed pumps are definitely going to have a quick payback with your $.33/KW power costs. Also, the nice thing about them is you can go a little bigger in case you might need it in the future but just reduce the speed to meet your current needs and pay no operating premium for that. I'll list some thing for you to think about as you go down this road:

• All pumps that are designed and marketed for pools seem to hold up pretty well if they're maintained. So why the big price difference? Some of it is basic like a cast metal assembly or various synthetic materials like glass reinforced plastic and high quality metallurgy in the seals and big differences in the quality of the motors. But most of the good quality second tier pumps can last 15+ years if well cared for.
• Support and service nework are a big differentiator. This costs money so they have to charge for it.
• I'm an avid DIY'er so much of the benefits of a majory manufacturer are not as important to me and I don't usually want to have to have a certified reseller/installer to get full warranty coverage. If I didn't do any work myself I'd definitely want to go major brand with the best warranty service.
• Parts seem to be readily available for 1st and 2nd tier pumps.
• Things that require maintenance are most often the moving parts like impellers and seals. No matter who makes the pump if it starts to leak replace the seals asap. If you don't it will leak into the motor and freeze the housing bolts that make it much more expensive to repair because you'll need a new motor also.
• I think the best pumps on the market are Pentair brand models with cast metal housings. But you do pay for the quality and your warranty is severely limited unless you use a certified installer/supplier.
• I don't see any benefit to buying major brand plastic housing pump. For plastic body pumps I think the brands you mentioned are fine unless you want to implement automation in the future. Each of the major brands implement their own versions (protocols) of the communication system to "talk" to the controls. There are adapters you can buy but they're not cheap. The easiest way around this is to use digital inputs that can be used by almost any brand of automation. Not all of the lower cost off-brand pumps have digital inputs but some do.

I'm inferring from what you've written so far that cost is a big factor but you'll need to deside if you are hiring an installer or doing the work yourself because that's important in the decision making. Check out this WikI article we have and you can read about most pump brands in other sections of our Wiki (many thanks to @ajw22 for all he and other experts on here do to keep this Wiki updated. A lot of pool decisions are more driven by owner preference than by a hard "only one solution will work" mentality. After you tell us a little more about your preferences, drivers, and future plans I'll be able to be more specific about what I'd do if I were you.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

 

[katarn444]

Thank you Chris and Newdude for your help.
The Calimar suggestion is very tempting. The 3hp is only $100ish more than the 1.5hp so maybe I will go with the bigger one.
I do almost everything myself so big DIYer. I never really worry about warranties as they are usually more of a hassle than anything else. Plus companies always try to weasel their way out of paying for some obscure reason, or make you pay shipping etc etc. As for automation it would be nice to implement in the future but I will probably follow one of the DIY solution here on the forum versus using any manufactures solution due to cost and headaches about buying all the right bits that talk to each other. I would rather buy the best (most economical) bits and sort out my own solution.
I would love to hear if anyone has a though on my Neptune superpump idea. Probably not worth the work but it would be nice to be able to swap between my new VSP and my old SS as the piping would all be the same.

Thanks again,
Paul

 

[Newdude]

The 3hp is only $100ish more than the 1.5hp so maybe I will go with the bigger one.

In this instance, the even better efficiency of the 3HP will recoup the $70 upcharge, and a no brainer. With the flagship pumps it may be $1000 more, or hundreds at least and may take a long time to recoup the upcharge, if ever.

never really worry about warranties as they are usually more of a hassle than anything else. Plus companies always try to weasel their way out of paying for some obscure reason, or make you pay shipping etc etc

I stopped counting when I broke $25k saved by never getting an extended warranty. Its got to be over $40k by now between vehicles and several rounds of appliances. When I do get a dud, which is eventual, I'll shrug and lol about it.

 

[setsailsoon]

In this instance, the even better efficiency of the 3HP will recoup the $70 upcharge, and a no brainer. With the flagship pumps it may be $1000 more, or hundreds at least and may take a long time to recoup the upcharge, if ever.

I stopped counting when I broke $25k saved by never getting an extended warranty. Its got to be over $40k by now between vehicles and several rounds of appliances. When I do get a dud, which is eventual, I'll shrug and lol about it.

Yep I had the same situation with my whole house generator. You can go through one of the "certified dealers" to get it installed and they add a few years to the warranty. That costs about $5K more. Or you can buy the unit from an online generator supply or HD when they have super sales and contract for the electrical and gas yourself. I did this twice on my current house and previous house. Both times saved a little more than $5K. Also worth noting you can buy a complete new genset for $5K! Both times I had 22KW Generac. They seem to last forever even with our hot wet climate the more recent ones all have aluminum sound enclosures that don't disintegrate like the old steel ones did. After 15 or 20 years I'll just buy another genset.

Chris