Help me pick a new light and find a gasket

[djdonte]

This amazon LED light I installed a few years back now blows the GFCI outlet after a few seconds. I cant see any water inside of the enclosure, but I'll see for sure when I open it up. In any case, on INYO there seems to be a few Pentair lights that look like mine. I think its the Amerlite but not positive. (Pentair Amerlite Pool Light Parts - INYOPools.com) If this is it, which of the three gaskets should I get? I dont remember what I purchased last time.
Also does anyone have a recommendation for an 120v LED light?

 

[1poolman1]

This amazon LED light I installed a few years back now blows the GFCI outlet after a few seconds. I cant see any water inside of the enclosure, but I'll see for sure when I open it up. In any case, on INYO there seems to be a few Pentair lights that look like mine. I think its the Amerlite but not positive. (Pentair Amerlite Pool Light Parts - INYOPools.com) If this is it, which of the three gaskets should I get? I dont remember what I purchased last time.
Also does anyone have a recommendation for an 120v LED light?

Amerilite, yes. Get a silicone gasket. Are you looking for white or color-changing?

PoolTone™ 110 120 VAC Warm White LED Bulb 35W Watts

REPLACEMENT WHITE LED BULB's PAR38 E27 Base 110 - 130 VAC Uses Standard E27 screw base at 220 230 or 240 VAC Product Dimensions, 3.7 x 3.7 x 4.7 inches This bulb is brighter than an equivalent 500 Watt Incandescent bulb yet uses only 35 Watts of Power Warm White LED 35 Watts 3000 Lumens Bulb...

www.florida-sunseeker.com

 

[djdonte]

Ok so the heavy duty one for 43.99. I dont remember spending that much last time perhaps thats my problem. As for the light, I really liked the color changing LED.

 

[1poolman1]

Ok so the heavy duty one for 43.99. I dont remember spending that much last time perhaps thats my problem. As for the light, I really liked the color changing LED.

Silicone Pool Light Gasket LPL-G-P

J&J Electronics LPL-G-P ColorSplash Silicone Pool Light Gasket

www.poolzoom.com

 

[djdonte]

Do you recommend the color LED from that Pooltone site? Looks like they have a package for 170-200 with a light, pentair gasket and a new screw. I don’t want to go with another Amazon cheapie. I see INYO has a 80 dollar light with a warranty.

 

[1poolman1]

Do you recommend the color LED from that Pooltone site? Looks like they have a package for 170-200 with a light, pentair gasket and a new screw. I don’t want to go with another Amazon cheapie. I see INYO has a 80 dollar light with a warranty.

Many on this site have used them.

 

[djdonte]

Thanks. I ordered the kit with the gasket from Pooltone.

 

[djdonte]

So the craziest thing is happening. When I removed the light, I get a slight buzzing sensation on a cut on my hand when touching the metal ring face plate.. It feels like touching your tongue on a 9v just not as harsh. How is this possible if the switch is off? I replaced the 15a single pole switch to be sure it wasnt "leaking" and same thing. Now I am thinking the enclosure is leaking or the cable is damaged somewhere down the line. I want to say it still does it when the GFCI is popped too but I forget and am not positive. Im really confused. The light looks dry inside but I will be opening it today. I left the light on the deck to the exterior will dry off and there will be no mistaking it if there is moisture inside the enclosure.

Problem is, when looking at the junction box that the switch is in, the waterfall switch is there too, and both the pool light and waterfall pump go into one conduit. They are on separate circuits and terminate in different places. There are two conduits at this switch box. One has both circuits coming from the equipment pad, and the other has both the light and waterfall pump wires going down into the ground. There would have to be a tee or a Y somewhere in the run I guess? I didnt think that was allowed below grade. How the heck would I fish a new light cable? Also from my experience in replacing the waterfall pump motor capacitor, the motor has one leg of 220v always hot, while a single pole switch make it turn on and off with the other leg. So this tells me there is always 120v flowing thru the same conduit as the light. Thoughts?

 

[CA92807]

I'm not an electrician, but I have reviewed the NEC and know that's it's not allowed to run a GFCI protected circuit along with non-protected circuits in the same chase (conduit).

I've had to replace most of my light fixtures because of degraded cables with high resistance leakage that trips the GFCI.

 

[djdonte]

Not sure what the NEC said in 1998 when the pool was built. Talking with an electrician, it is pretty unlikely that there is a Y or tee buried. I believe both power lines stub up where the waterfall pump is, then the light cord goes back down to the niche, but I have to check it out later today to be certain. I already have the Pooltone light kit on the way, but if I need a whole new enclosure I'd rather not open it. Is there a home depot light I can put in the niche to see if it turns on more than a second or two or if its still blows the GFCI? Also is there a better place to get a new enclosure other then pooltone?

 

[CA92807]

I would do these steps to troubleshoot the problem:

Remove the fixture from the water and open it on the deck. If it's wet at all inside that is your problem, so let it dry out in the sun. Once dry, or if it was already dry, power it up without a lamp. If the GFCI still trips the fixture and/or the wiring between the GFCI and fixture is defective. I've had both issues. Disconnect the fixture at the poolside junction box to isolate the issue.

If it doesn't trip the GFCI, put in a 60 watt incandescent lamp and turn it on. If that trips, you have a wiring problem.

If the 60 watt works, try your LED after you've verified it works in a normal light fixture. If it trips the GFCI it's likely generating electrical noise that's confusing the GFCI. You've already replaced the GFCI, so try a different LED.

Once you get a light to work, reseal the fixture and reinstall it in the pool. In the unlikely case it trips the GFCI, the fixture is bad.

 

[djdonte]

Thanks for the tips. I will do that. I got a 130 watt floodlight that I found at HD with the same base. The original incandescent light that was in there originally had to be more than that. It should work too no?

 

[djdonte]

I opened it and there was a tiny bit of moisture inside. Rust on the bulb base too. The GFCI pops no matter if there’s a bulb in there or not. Not sure how to tell if it’s leaking thru the gasket or thru the wire termination in the back, but it’s all potted back there. Guess I just need to replace the fixture? There was some calcium looking build up on the sealing surface of the metal housing.

 

[1poolman1]

I opened it and there was a tiny bit of moisture inside. Rust on the bulb base too. The GFCI pops no matter if there’s a bulb in there or not. Not sure how to tell if it’s leaking thru the gasket or thru the wire termination in the back, but it’s all potted back there. Guess I just need to replace the fixture? There was some calcium looking build up on the sealing surface of the metal housing.

A fixture that trips the GFCI must be replaced. The problem can be anywhere, including the cord.

 

[djdonte]

Agreed. I am going to see about returning this light bulb to pool tone and ordering the fixture pre sealed with a color led bulb. 500ish dollars ugh. I was able to pull the cable but only a little. I am going to get cable pull lube and squirt it down the conduit so it can soak a bit.

 

[CA92807]

Disconnect the fixture at the pool-side junction box and test for a trip. The problem could be in the wires from the GFCI to the box. I had one light with this issue and had to pull new wires, but the fixture was OK.

 

[djdonte]

The GFCI did not trip with the light unhooked. I went ahead and tied fish line to the old wire to pull it thru from the niche side. Didnt need wire lube. I measured the wire at 22-23 feet. Going to order a new Pooltone enclosure tmrw with the 50 foot wire.

The junction box at the waterfall was wired a little weird. Im no electrician but it doesnt seem right. Both the pump circuit and the light circuit ran from the 2 gang switch box to the J box behind the waterfall in one 3/4 conduit. They are separate breakers on the main. The light on its own GFCI outlet protected breaker, and the waterfall is off the main pump line.

This is where it get dicey IMO. The waterfall pump has one 120v leg hot full time, which also feeds a 15amp outlet that looks like it was used for an old landscape light timer. I've only used it for a dyna trap. The other 120v leg for the 220v pump is switched at the 2 gang box. For the light fixture, ONLY its hot wire is ran to the J box, where it is tied to the fixture hot. It then shares a ground with the pump circuit, and its neutral is connected to the 15amp outlet neutral.

If this complies with 1998 NEC then I guess its grandfathered in, but it doesnt seem right. However, its been working fine up until the fixture leaked. Should I leave it as is, remove the outlet, or completely rewire it from the switch to the J box so the light has all its own ground and neutral? I dont think a 3/4" conduit would support that many conductors.

I am thinking of replacing the single pole switch with a double pole 20 amp 220v switch so I can switch box legs of the pump at the same time, unless the current set up is OK. This would effectively get rid of the outlet since it wouldnt have constant power too. The light and pump would still share a ground and neutral. I think pulling more wire thru the existing conduit would open a can of worms.

 

[1poolman1]

No neutral on a 220V motor. Always best to turn power off to both legs of a 220 appliance.

 

[djdonte]

No neutral on a 220V motor. Always best to turn power off to both legs of a 220 appliance.

You are right. Two 120 legs and a ground. So there is a hot and a neutral pulled to the J box for the light circuit. Neutral goes to the outlet neutral side. The hot for the outlet is taken from the 220v constant leg. The neutral for the enclosure is connected to the neutral on the outlet. The ground for the light and outlet is connected to the ground for the motor. Make more sense?

I am not feeling great about the light neutral connected to the outlet where a constant hot is also connected. Is it possible to backfeed? Either way, I think I will be putting a double pole switch in the switch box and eliminating the outlet. Could the outlet connected as such have caused the GFCI trip. I didnt see any evidence of water in the J box. Just a Crud ton of fire ants.

 

[djdonte]

OK.. so got the old light pulled out and there is fish tape there waiting for the new light assembly Friday. I did rewire things a bit and replace a rusted switch box. There is indeed a separate hot wire running to the J box for the outlet. It is branched off the light hot wire at the switch box. I went ahead and eliminated the outlet since I didnt feel great about having constant power to an outlet where the light neutral shared. Also I dont use that outlet, and the J box was full of ants and moisture. Removing the outlet let me put a nice cover with gasket on to prevent further moisture.

I removed the rusted switch box and cut conduit in to install a non metallic one. The rusted box had stripped holes so I was using silicone to seal the face plate. Not ideal in wet conditions. The wires were a mess so I cut and stripped fresh wire and cleaned it all up. Also replaced the single pole pump switch with a double pole so that both legs are switched. Thanks for all your help so far.