Help! Is autofill plumbed correctly?

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Swim469

Member
Apr 8, 2021
5
TX
Hello! 👋 I’d appreciate your advice on whether our autofill line is plumbed correctly. Attached are pictures showing the plumber’s 3 attempts.

Attempt 1: The plumber used a hose bibb splitter and connected the autofill. The autofill had been working for several weeks, but the other side of the splitter started leaking.

Attempt 2: He plumbed the autofill directly to the water line coming from the house and then used a T connector to attach the hose bibb. However, the splitter on the hose bibb was still leaking on the same side. I’m not sure why he didn’t just replace the hose bibb splitter to begin with.

Attempt 3: He replaced the hose bibb.

We’d like the ability to manually turn off the autofill and also have the ability to use the hose bibb for other gardening needs, so we liked how it was plumbed originally. It doesn’t look like we have that capability now (unless the black valve would let us do that). Is there anything else wrong with how it is plumbed now? Do I need to be concerned about what kind of metal the new T connector is made of (lead, etc.)?

Thank you very much in advance!
 

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Wow, that is some lazy plumbing. Let me count the ways...

1. As Allen points out, you need a quality BFP in the mix. It could go somewhere in between the tee and the auto-fill, but it could also go elsewhere in your plumbing system, where it could stand between the entire property's plumbing and the water source.

2. Those PVC ball valves are junk. That should be a brass fitting up by the iron T, before transitioning to PVC. Or the shutoff valves on the BFP will allow the elimination of that cheap ball valve should you go that route.

3. All the plumbing above ground ideally should be iron or copper, with proper fittings to transition from metal to metal up top and metal to PVC below ground. That's not done so much any more, with PVC used instead, but it might be a matter of building code in your area, so it might be worth checking on that. Do you have a local building department? You can call them discretely and ask some questions. Or if there is an inspector involved in your project, he should know.

4. Additionally, all above ground water lines need to be insulated. We know it can freeze in Texas! But also to protect PVC from sunlight (UV rays). Again, there might be some local building codes on how specifically that needs to be done.

5. The PVC end at the hose bibb is mated to the iron tee with what looks to be an iron nipple, threaded one end into the tee (that's fine) and the other side threaded into a female-to-slip PVC fitting, and that's wrong. Now, if it isn't metal, that may or may not be OK, depending on what it is. You never thread male metal into female PVC, because that can weaken the PVC fitting and setup a future failure point that can split open. Always thread male PVC into female metal. That should have been a male-to-slip PVC fitting threaded directly into the tee (no nipple).

6. There appears to be some sort of plumber's dope on that same nipple. There is the correct type to use, and there are many others that are not the right type. No way to tell from here, but that's something to insist upon. My guess, he used whatever he had handy. Based on what he obviously doesn't know about plumbing, it could be anything.

Now, there is a proper vacuum breaker BFP on the hose bibb. That's the brass fitting with the thumb screw screwed on to the faucet. So that's right. But based on this guys work, lemme guess, that was there before he started? Or did it come with the new hose bibb?

The way it is plumbed now, the above-mentioned errors aside, it'll will work the way you want it to. The auto-fill will get constant pressure, though right now it is off based on the horizontal position of the black handle on the white ball valve. The black handle will not affect a hose screwed onto the hose bibb. The blue handle will not affect the auto-fill. If you want to use more than one hose, then you can pick up another tee from the hardware store, there was nothing wrong with that Y (other than it leaking, of course, and when used for garden hoses, not PVC pipes!). The blue handle on the hose bibb will control the garden hose, independent of the black handle on the PVC line. If you install a proper BFP, the same will be true. Valves on the BFP will work the auto-fill. The blue handle will work the garden hose. They won't affect each other.

When you say plumber, do you mean a licensed plumbing contractor? Or someone that works for a pool builder that calls himself a plumber? Are plumbers required to be licensed in TX? Frankly, either way, he's a disgrace to the profession. Attempt #1, connecting the auto-fill line to that cheap Y fitting, was absolutely shameful. You can try to get him to do it again correctly, I suppose, or you can insist on having an actual plumber do it. If there is a general contractor involved, or a pool builder, insist on having someone else do that work. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is just shoddy workmanship, and, ya know, "three strikes, ya out!"

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Thank you so so much. I really appreciate it. It sounds like we need to bring in another plumber to correct the issues. The current plumber is a sub that was hired by the pool company, and I don’t know if he is licensed. From a quick Google search, it sounds like plumbers used to be required to be licensed in Texas, but as of 2019, they no longer have to be licensed. We have a plumbing company that has worked on other projects in our home that is trustworthy so we will see if correcting the plumbing on an autofill is something that they could do.

It makes me nervous to think of what else was improperly done in the construction of this pool. We had our final inspection several weeks ago by the city and I don’t recall if that was before or after the autofill was plumbed, but the city has already signed off on the pool and I don’t know if it’d be a good thing to call them back out here. I’ve heard of third party pool inspections for existing pools when buying a home (to check the condition of the plaster, equipment, etc.) Do homeowners ever hire third parties to do inspections of newly constructed pools? Would there even be any issues that the inspector could identify if the pool seems to be running? We do have a separate pool cleaning company that has been coming once a week to check chemical levels, brush the pool, and empty skimmer baskets but I’m wondering if we need something beyond that to make sure everything was done properly.
 
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Swim469 said:
Thank you so so much. I really appreciate it. It sounds like we need to bring in another plumber to correct the issues.

It makes me nervous to think of what else was improperly done in the construction of this pool. We had our final inspection several weeks ago by the city and I don’t recall if that was before or after the autofill was plumbed, but the city has already signed off on the pool and I don’t know if it’d be a good thing to call them back out here.
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Don't do that.

Inspectors look to see if you meet code which is minimum standards.

Swim469 said:
I’ve heard of third party pool inspections for existing pools when buying a home. Do homeowners ever hire third parties to do inspections of newly constructed pools? Is that even a thing? We do have a separate pool cleaning company that has been coming once a week to check chemical levels, brush the pool, empty skimmer baskets, etc. but I’m wondering if we need something beyond that to make sure everything was done properly.
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There is much better work that can be done beyond code.

@Dirk described a lot of things that are best practices and beyond code. You now get into a matter of opinion between different workmen.

Some workmen do the low cost minimum cost and effort to meet code while others are craftsman and will do work and use materials to a higher standard. Unfortunately for the uneducated consumer there is no way to know what you will get on a job.

I would suggest bringing in one or two local plumbers to give you an estimate or improving your setup. Point to the pipe and ask them what they would do to improve it. The key things being replace the PVC above ground pipe with a metal pipe and the ball valve with a more robust metal valve.
 
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Yah, unfortunately, there are good and bad inspectors (both government and 3rd party) just as there are good and bad plumbers. And building codes can vary wildly from city to city. The "home inspection" type pool inspection probably won't reveal much of anything, and certainly nothing about anything not plainly visible (like, nothing about the structure of the pool, or it's materials, etc). They turn on the pump, check for leaks, and maybe call out a cracked tile or two. My pool inspection missed just about everything that was wrong with my pool.

In theory, I like Allen's idea of "interviewing" local plumbers until you get one that has the answers you want to hear. But, of course, that would put the cost of redoing it on you. And that's if you can even get any to come out just to give you an estimate on a small job, which used to be "a thing," but is getting tougher and tougher these days (at least that's how it is where I live). Tough call. If your pool contractor has satisfied local code, then he's off the hook. But if he's willing to give it another shot, then maybe you can get some of our suggestions out of him at no cost, or at a reasonable cost. If it's not about cost, then using the guy you already trust sounds like the way to go.

As a consumer, you shouldn't even have to think about things like this, but the craftsmen that Allen refers to are a dying breed. We now have to keep an eye on contractors and make our expectations known, to hope to get quality work. :(
 
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Swim, if this project gets put on the back burner, the main thing is to cover the pipe. You can pick up some foam insulation from Lowes or HD, along with some tape, and it'd be an easy task to cover the pipe and the black handle of the ball valve. Keeping the sun off that pipe and that handle, and keeping it all from freezing next year would be job one. I've had good luck with these products. Cut this stuff to length and just slip over the pipe:

Then just wrap it with tape, round and round, may-pole style, or with short individual pieces:

Like so:

anthony-1501_orig.jpg

Less than $10 total...
 
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Yes, great call @AQUA~HOLICS, I neglected to mention the regulator. My auto-fill water source is my water softener, which is regulated same as the rest of the interior plumbing. But if the OP's auto-fill line tees off his water main, before his house's regulator (assuming he has one), then the auto-fill line should have a regulator, too. Good catch!
 

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Dirk said:
Swim, if this project gets put on the back burner, the main thing is to cover the pipe. You can pick up some foam insulation from Lowes or HD, along with some tape, and it'd be an easy task to cover the pipe and the black handle of the ball valve. Keeping the sun off that pipe and that handle, and keeping it all from freezing next year would be job one. I've had good luck with these products. Cut this stuff to length and just slip over the pipe:

Then just wrap it with tape, round and round, may-pole style, or with short individual pieces:

Like so:

View attachment 396066

Less than $10 total...
Click to expand...
Good to know, thanks for the tip! We lightly wrapped this kind of foam insulation around the pipe when temperatures dropped recently but took it off when the weather warmed up. We hadn’t considered leaving it on year-round, but it sounds like a great way to protect the pipe from the sun.
 
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Swim469 said:
Good to know, thanks for the tip! We lightly wrapped this kind of foam insulation around the pipe when temperatures dropped recently but took it off when the weather warmed up. We hadn’t considered leaving it on year-round, but it sounds like a great way to protect the pipe from the sun.
Click to expand...
Yah, the foam by itself won't hold up to the sun very well at all. You gotta use the tape, too, for year-round installation... The type of tape I referenced seems to last many years...
 
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