help identifying CRL spa

[BSOD2600]

The buzzing noise is coming from the left side of the spa pack. I opened it up, but it's so loud, unsure which component is making the noise.
[attachment=0:2gy85ztj]EP2-internal2.jpg[/attachment:2gy85ztj]
[attachment=1:2gy85ztj]EP2-internal3.jpg[/attachment:2gy85ztj]

I talked with the service department of a local spa company about things. They stated that their techs wouldn't even look at it until my spa is brought up to the current electrical code, as there is no shutoff next to the spa.

Next, I then inquired about repairing the spa pack, which they came back stating its too old and to just replace the whole spa. Yea right. Next, I inquired about replacing just the spa pack with something newer. They came back stating heater/control pack would be $1800 or $2350 if an equipment system was needed. Holy Crud, so much for cheap fixes!

After more haggling with their service department and getting them to pricematch with an online site, I just received a bid for $1300 for a spa pack and ~3hrs of labor.

Really, I'd like to just replace whatever component is buzzing in the spa pack and save myself the $1000+ for a whole new unit. Any idea how I'd go about identifying which part it is, where to get a replacement, and/or some other company who will actually help me with my current equipment?

 

[cheddar85]

Hey, was wondering what happened! To find out for sure which piece it is, just touch each one (on the plastic please!) with a piece of plastic, like the handle of a screwdriver or something. You'll definitely know which one it is when you feel it. The black one in the top left is a contactor, and is most likely the one making all that noise. Look on the label on it and post back all the info on it. After I get the info, I'll do some digging and see what I can find. If you're not okay with buying online, getting that part will be really difficult though.

$1300!? Every once in a while, I wonder why I work on all my stuff myself. Thanks for reminding me why!

 

[BSOD2600]

Yea sorry for the delays, life is busy with a new house and job these days.

Yup, it's the coil which is making all the noise. Took a wood paint stick and touched each to my ear while it was on. Coil is part number a77-306652a-1, which from looking online is a single pole, 120V 25A. While I can find plenty of replacement contactors on various spa websites, I'm not entirely sure on the pinouts once it arrives. The current one has two on opposite ends and then 2 in the middle for the coil... vs the newer ones which just have two on opposite ends.

heh, once I do get a replacement coil/contactor (what does this thing do anyways for the spa heater?), I wonder what else I'll find wrong with this thing....

 

[cheddar85]

Believe me, I know what you mean about busy...

What about this one? http://www.spadepot.com/shop/Contactor- ... 9C179.aspx
Is that the same as what you have now?

How many total connections does yours have now? Only ones that are being used. I'm assuming 4 (2 for the heater in/out, and 2 for the coil in/out). If yours has more under each heater connection, and even if it doesn't, the one I posted will work just fine. You'll just hook up each connection to the exact spot on the new coil.

As far why the heater needs it, inside the contactor are spring loaded points and the contact surface, which when the electromagnet coil underneath has power applied to it, pulls the points down and completes the circuit for the heater (or whatever else is hooked up to it). When the power is removed, the spring pulls the points back up to open the circuit. If you really wanna rig it up, you could always find a 120v 25A switch and run longer wires from the heater to it. But for less than $20, why go through all that trouble?

If the one I posted is what you need, I would recommend getting it there, unless you can find it a lot cheaper somewhere else. Your profile says Washington (I'm assuming WA state), so they could probably get it to you in 3 days or less. **Not affiliated with them in any way, but when I get good service, I'll let people know.**

Sorry for yet another long post, seems my fingers like to type as much as my mouth likes to talk!

 

[BSOD2600]

Yup, I've been looking at spadepot.com for prices/parts the past weeks. Seems decent enough to me. Will order it up tonight.

ah, so the coil basically regulates how much the heating element is heated? Sounds sort of like a mechanical PWM (pulse width modulation)

 

[cheddar85]

ah, so the coil basically regulates how much the heating element is heated? Sounds sort of like a mechanical PWM (pulse width modulation)

No, it's either full power or none. Once you get a new one, pop open the old one and you'll see what I mean. You have the switch, and underneath is the coil. When you push the button (or turn the thermostat) for the heater, the switch that the button is connected to allows power to the coil. When the coil gets power, it basically becomes an electromagnet, which pulls the contacts inside the switch together. When you turn off the heater, power is removed from the coil and the spring inside the switch pushes the contacts apart.

It's kind of hard to describe what it looks like, but when you actually see the inside of one, it's really simple.

 

[BSOD2600]

Anyways, finally got the coil and time to install it tonight. The new one looks a wee bit different than the old, as it has two sets of umm poles it appears. Even though the part states its a Siemens 45CG10AFA
[attachment=0:2o2j90nm]SIEMEAC00005_413_TN_001.jpg[/attachment:2o2j90nm]

Took off the old, swap over the wires putting them into the same positions and flipped on the breaker. Now it only makes a single click and overall the spa is much quieter -- only the noise of the motor now. It only been heating for ~1.5 hours, with ~15F raise. Will see how things sit in the morning. On yea, the old one, one can clearly see where the contacts are and worn out.
[attachment=1:2o2j90nm]old_coil2.jpg[/attachment:2o2j90nm]

Looking like a $20 part was the fix, which is way better than the $1800 the spa company wanted.

 

[cheddar85]

Good to hear you got it fixed!

Wish I got 5 deg/hr. Mine only does 2-3, but I think my heater element is getting worn out. Oh well, electricity is cheap here, so I'll just deal with it until it gets worse.

Hopefully you won't have any more problems for a long, long time, and you can start to enjoy your tub soon!

 

[BSOD2600]

Ended up going with BaquaSpa (before I read the reviews online) which is what the local spa dealer carried... well that or chlorine. Enjoyed the spa for about a week of real usage with temps 100+ F.

Seems the heater element died now though. Noticed this weekend temps started to drop into the 80F range and today its 70F even though I specifically turned it on for 45min. I swear, this thing is turning into more and more of a Dang money pit.

So, how hard is it to remove the heater element and find a matching replacement?

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

Usually not hard at all. Most are just a couple nuts for the leads and a couple more to hold the element in the tube.

Scott

 

[BSOD2600]

Spent 2 hours after work taking the spa pack end apart, so I could get to the heater element. What a major pain in the butt. Anyways, after getting it all out I measured it with the ohm meter and it reads ~9.8 ohms, which per this page is within spec. No continuity with the metal casing either.

[attachment=0:1ugo96g6]heater_case.jpg[/attachment:1ugo96g6]
240V 6KW element

Since it's apparently not the heating element, what else is the cause of no heat? The pump still turns on, so not a complete system failure.

 

[cheddar85]

Thermostat maybe? Man, I'm really sorry you're having all this trouble, it really sucks.

I've only been on every once in a while the past few days, got a pool and have to clear out the area where we're putting it...which just happens to be where a shed used to stand (before Ike anyways), and there's a lot of stuff to clear out. I'll try to get back on later to try to help figure out what's going on with it.

 

[cobra46]

Think on the bright side. After you get this thing all dialed in you will know how it works inside and out. Fixing it in the future will be that much easier.

 

[cheddar85]

Any luck figuring it out yet? If you haven't yet, also check the voltage at the heater leads and make sure it's correct. It should be 120v each leg, 240 total, +/- 10%.
If not, verify you have voltage entering and leaving the thermostat dial.

 

[BSOD2600]

I got everything re-assembled back together again. Flipped the breaker on, turned up the thermostat and waited for the sparks ;P. Measured 240V across the heater coil, so for now, everything is working properly as it should. Dialed in the thermostat to not quite as high of a setting. Now its around 102F after the pump has been on for a bit and no higher.

If it dies again, this time I'll be checking the high temp cuttoff switch first...

 

[cheddar85]

Good luck!