Help. First time pool owner in Nassau County, NY.

[Pool Amateur]

Ok, Thanks. Will I still need to cut the pipes to open the valve assembly?
I have an extra gasket just in case.

I also read that an old or faulty spring can also be responsible for a leak at the waste port and is difficult to replace. Is there a circumstance where purchasing a new valve assembly makes more sense?

No, to get to the spring you take the top off the way you did to check the spider gasket, there are you-tube videos to show how to change the spring, it is not too hard. But the spring probably does not need changing. When you push the selector handle of the filter down is it super easy or slightly stiff? It it wants to spring back quickly I doubt that is the problem. You can buy the upper assembly for the valve for about $55, then have a new spider gasket and spring take 10 min to change.

If you are talking about getting the whole multi-port valve off the filter to get into the filter, then I believe the answer is yes, you do just as you did when you changed the sand.

 

[George D]

Hello Swampwoman. I have read a few threads where people are having temporary trouble with their pools, such as cloudiness, after adding sequestrants and metal cleaners in their pools.
I have the CH Increaser and the Proteam Metal Magic but I think I'll hold off until September. I won't need to use the gas heater until then. I'm thinking after what we went through to get the pool clear, I would not want to lose a few days of pool use in the middle of the summer.

 

[Swampwoman]

Nothing wrong with taking a conservative approach
Are the stains lifting at all? Eg. The parts you suspected were organic?

 

[George D]

Ok. The stains are slowly getting lighter in color. I did the Vitamin C test and in some spots the stains disappeared and some spots had no effect. It appears the organic and inorganic stains overlap each other. Is that possible?

I had to remove the Poolskim device because it was causing noticeable water loss. I confirmed this when I left the pump running at night and saw the lower water level in the morning. I had the Poolskim connected in one of the two shallow returns by the steps. There was no leak at the waste port so I don't know where the water went.
There is no water loss now other than evaporation which is very little.
I will try to install again at another shallow return but it's not as effective as it was by the steps.

 

[Swampwoman]

Yes, George, its entirely possible that given your swampy condition you have "combo" stains...decomposing organic material can also leave trace iron stains

So if you just let the FC and sunlight work on the organic stains until fall, then treat the metal areas, it makes sense to me.

I find the pool skim phenom puzzling but don't have any suggestions. That's not normal behavior and there's no way it should cause waterloss. Hopefully over time as you become familiar with your system you will be able to identify what's going on

 

[Catanzaro]

Yes, George, its entirely possible that given your swampy condition you have "combo" stains...decomposing organic material can also leave trace iron stains

I am a big believer on this one. In my pool, leaves on the liner do not necessarily do any damage over the winter or during the season (no more than a few days before vacuuming up). Although, a leaf on the white steps with little water in the pool for a day or two causes a severe stain. I have to scrub hard with a magic eraser to remove it. Also, I have heard that some people experienced severe stains from worms over time.

 

[George D]

Ok. Over the course of 5 years, I think my pool has accumulated all those stains and more.

 

[George D]

I added 25 lbs. of CH Increaser, 1/2 on Sunday night and the other 1/2 Monday morning. As per instructions, I Backwashed (and Rinsed) the filter and added 4 quarts of Pro Team Metal Magic in the evening. The instructions say to run pump for 48 consecutive hours after adding the Metal Magic.

Do I need to Backwashash and Rinse again after 48 hours?
When should I test the gas heater to see if clear water flows out of the returns?

 

[Swampwoman]

Hi George. Don't backwash if you don't need to -- they just mean especially not to backwash during the first 48 hours. You may experience lightening of stains over the course of a week.

Let the sequestrant run a bit, eg a few days, then test the heater.

 

[George D]

Hi Swampwoman.

Ok, I won't Backwash. I'll wait until Friday or Saturday to test the heater.
According to what I read, the Metal Magic will get rid of the metals in the water temporarily. Will I need to add the sequestrant every year to prevent green water after turning the heater on?
Should I keep my FC level between 1-3 for a few days? Would that help the Metal Magic work more effectively?
The FC level was 3 yesterday.
Thanks.

 

[Swampwoman]

I would bring your FC back up to the normal ratio [fc/cya][/FC/cya] chart as soon as the 48 hours is up.

You most likely will need to maintain your sequestrant level per the instructions on the Metal Magic bottle and in accordance with how much metal you may have in your water. Its hard to tell when you haven't yet had your heater on, we don't know the condition and whether its leaching copper from the years of being closed, and we don't know for sure what other metals have caused the stains, eg. Iron.

We also don't know how much the stains will lift. Can you post a pic of how the pool looks now?

 

[George D]

Ok, I will add chlorine after 48 hours is up. Most of the stains are fading and in some areas they are the same but I have not checked the pool since I added the sequestrant on Monday night. Yesterday felt like a cool, rain soaked October day. I will add a new pic today.

 

[George D]

I attached 2 photos. One shows most of the stain still present and the other shows parts of stains removed. The liner is white on those spots.
I tested the CH and it scored 120. Did I need to increase it more before adding the metal magic?

 

[George D]

I started the gas heater and it worked. Clear water flowed through the returns after increasing the calcium level and adding metal magic. After about 10 minutes, smoke was coming out of the heater. The smoke was light in color and no signs of black smoke. I thought that after 5 years of no use, there might be debris but I shut it down.

Is this normal?

 

[George D]

Pool heater technician checked out the heater. After some testing he recommended shutting it down because of the continuous crackling sound like popcorn popping. He disconnected the heater and gave me info and prices for installing new heater.

 

[Swampwoman]

Sorry to hear that, but maybe it was time.

So, were you feeling like experimenting with further stain removal before closing up the pool, or are you planning to wait until spring?

If you'd like to try more, test again with some crushed up vit c on that deep end stain and see if it lightens.

If it does and you want to pan a treatment, go read up on the AA (Ascorbic Acid) treatment at this link: Ascorbic Treatment to rid Pool of metal stains

 

[George D]

Thanks for the advice. I noticed that since the technician disconnected the pipes from the heater, I don't need to wait 1 minute for the pump to prime in the morning.
I think I will wait until spring but I will try the vitamin c test tomorrow since the forecast is for around 80 degrees and sunny.
Can you recommend which heating system is better? natural gas heater or electric heat pump? According to what I have read, a natural gas heater heats up the pool more but is more costly to run, needs new parts more often and does not last as long as a heat pump.

 

[Swampwoman]

For me in Michigan, I would not consider anything other than natural gas personally, but I run my pool hot and on shoulder seasons, and as of last year, also run it inside a winter dome.

Heat pumps are great at ain training temp when there is warmth to pull from the air. Typically, they're slower to heat, especially in shoulder season. For this reason they're not super popular in northern climes. While they ay be cheaper to operate, they are more expensive to purchase.

In your case, you already have a gas line running to your equipment pad, so natural gas will be a cheaper purchase and install for you, at least on the front end.

I replaced m old heater last year with a Raypak 266 btu purchased from Swimming Pool Supplies - Pool Parts - INYOPools.com for $1600. Great unit. By purchasing it this way, I saved more than $1,000 fom the pool guy's quote. I hired a pool service to install it, hich was straightforward since I was replacing a Hayward heater with a similar footprint.

 

[George D]

Yes, those are excellent reasons for me to install a NG Heater instead of a heat pump. I looked up the Raypak 260k BTU and it looks like a great choice. Is it an indoor heater? Since my broken heater is an indoor, it would be an easier install, with the gas line and venting already in place.
The technician recommended I purchase the Jandy Pro Series 260k BTU which costs $1,764 at the website. It is an outdoor heater but installation will likely be more expensive. He quoted $3,700 for purchase and installation which is a lot.

 

[Swampwoman]

If your Lara's footprint is similar and to already have a type b vent, the Raypak may be a good fit...measure your Laars, look at where the lines go in (gas and water) and compare t Raypak or Jandy.

The way to keep installation price down is to require as few modifications to your gasline and plumbing as possible, and especially the vent, whch requires hvac licensed techs.

For mine, I went from an od Hayward ED to the Raypak and it fit perfectly...no vent wrk, no fooling with gasline etc. I believe Raypak has reversible outlets too to offer a bit of installation flexibility.

My guy only took a few hours eg maybe 3, to remove and replace...possibly less.