Hello

[Moniyque]

We are in the process of setting up our first pool. It's a vinyl above ground used 13x23x4. I am looking to use the least amount of chemicals possible because one of my sons has a genetic mutation that makes it very difficult for him to detox chemicals that enter his body. I have a few questions:
1. Would using a silver and copper generator reduce the required chlorine ppm? I have read some sites that claim you can keep chlorine at 0.5 ppm.
2. I understand that baquasil (sp?) is not a great option. Are you guys familiar with this product from Walmart (I know, doesn't sound very reliable lol) https://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Silk-Chlorine-Free-Pool-Sanitizer-1-2-gallon/44441286?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1195&adid=22222222228032056088&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=61133814296&wl4=aud-273067695102la-108543375896&wl5=9010503&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112549854&wl11=online&wl12=44441286&wl13=&veh=sem
3. Would a salt water pool somehow reduce the amount of chemicals that are needed or just the ease that you don't have to add the chlorine by hand?
4. This is an out there question, but what would happen if you wanted the salinity in your pool to be comparable to that in the ocean? Amaeba don't grow in the ocean (one of my main concerns), plus it makes floating easier. I'm guessing it might mess up the pump and I was reading something about possibly the metal frame but would love to understand more. What about adding Epsom salts to a pool? How would that interact with the other chemicals in it?
5. What's the best way to clean the liner? It had nasty water in it, and its faded. Should I try to get the bulk of the dirt off before filling or worry about it after?
Thank you all in advance for your help, I'm sure I will have a ton of questions in the coming weeks

 

[JoyfulNoise]

We are in the process of setting up our first pool. It's a vinyl above ground used 13x23x4. I am looking to use the least amount of chemicals possible because one of my sons has a genetic mutation that makes it very difficult for him to detox chemicals that enter his body. I have a few questions:
1. Would using a silver and copper generator reduce the required chlorine ppm? I have read some sites that claim you can keep chlorine at 0.5 ppm.

Given your claim that your child has a chemical allergy, why would you want to expose him/her to even more chemicals and ones which are difficult to control the levels of? Please read the following series of posts -

Alternative sanitizers and pools--The Truth!!

This one was a doozy and not for the faint of heart -

The forgotten alternative sanitizer for pools and spas that was extensively studied i

See these as well -

Alternative to chlorine, peroxide?

Chlorine free pool?

The fact of the matter is the claims made by chemical manufacturers that you can use less chlorine by adding other chemicals are bogus. Copper is an algaecide, that is true. But it requires maintaining the copper concentration at levels very close to the point of scaling and, once an algae bloom starts, no safe amount of copper will help. You will then have to use huge amounts of chlorine to fix the problem which will cause the copper to scale all over the liner. Silver ions are bacteriostatic to a certain extent but typically only at high temperatures (found in hot tubs) and in the presence of a strong oxidizer like potassium monopersulfate (MPS).

So again, you're trading one great chemical, chlorine, for other lousy and less effective chemicals....I don't see how that solves your problem?

2. I understand that baquasil (sp?) is not a great option. Are you guys familiar with this product from Walmart (I know, doesn't sound very reliable lol) https://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Silk-Chlorine-Free-Pool-Sanitizer-1-2-gallon/44441286?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1195&adid=22222222228032056088&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=61133814296&wl4=aud-273067695102la-108543375896&wl5=9010503&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112549854&wl11=online&wl12=44441286&wl13=&veh=sem

It's just Walmart's branded version of biquanide based pool sanitizer. No difference between this stuff and any other biquanide system sold under the trade name Baquacil. As you can see from the many conversion threads on here, people typically get one or two good seasons out of Baquacil and then spend the rest of time fighting poor water quality and white mold...and draining their wallets paying through the nose for the very expensive Baquacil chemicals.

3. Would a salt water pool somehow reduce the amount of chemicals that are needed or just the ease that you don't have to add the chlorine by hand?

An SWG affords convenience. You still must maintain the proper FC/CYA ratio for a clean and clear pool.

4. This is an out there question, but what would happen if you wanted the salinity in your pool to be comparable to that in the ocean? Amaeba don't grow in the ocean (one of my main concerns), plus it makes floating easier. I'm guessing it might mess up the pump and I was reading something about possibly the metal frame but would love to understand more. What about adding Epsom salts to a pool? How would that interact with the other chemicals in it?

While it is true that amoeba can not live in high salinity waters, there are plenty of dangerous bacteria and viral pathogens completely unaffected by salinity. Adding Epsom salt just adds magnesium sulfate to the water which has no sanitizing capabilities whatsoever. Again, you're adding more chemicals at this point so how does that help your child?

High salinity and sulfates will be incredibly damaging to your pool equipment and landscape surfaces and lead to excessive corrosion and degradation of the pool and surrounding structures.

5. What's the best way to clean the liner? It had nasty water in it, and its faded. Should I try to get the bulk of the dirt off before filling or worry about it after?
Thank you all in advance for your help, I'm sure I will have a ton of questions in the coming weeks

I can not comment here as I do not own a vinyl liner. I'm sure in general it is best to clean and prep the liner as best as possible (likely using a mild bleach solution) before adding water to it.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

We are in the process of setting up our first pool. It's a vinyl above ground used 13x23x4. I am looking to use the least amount of chemicals possible because one of my sons has a genetic mutation that makes it very difficult for him to detox chemicals that enter his body.

Hey again Moniyque- I know your previous post asked about Bacqua vs chlorine. You didn't mention your son at that time. Is there a name for this genetic mutation? I'm a nurse (also back in school studying biochemistry) so I'm truly interested in what might be going on? You can private message me if you'd like.

You know, I don't think there is a problem with chlorine in pool water. As long as your son doesn't drink it, he shouldn't be absorbing anything to speak of from it. The skin is an amazing first line of defense and it works pretty darn good.

Il would rather swim in low level chlorine water than silver or copper laden water.

3. Would a salt water pool somehow reduce the amount of chemicals that are needed or just the ease that you don't have to add the chlorine by hand?

Do you mean a salt water chlorine generated pool or just a pool with salt added to the water? There is a lot of ease in using a swg of course, but even adding chemicals "by hand" doesn't mean you're actually touching them with ...you know.. skin.

4. This is an out there question, but what would happen if you wanted the salinity in your pool to be comparable to that in the ocean?

SWG pools have aprox 3,000ppm of salt in them.. The ocean has 30,000 ppm. I doubt you could actually even enjoy a pool like that. No telling what it would do to the equipment???

 

[needsajet]

Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here

Pool water chemistry, safety and aesthetics are overwhelming to a new pool owner. Sadly there are chemical companies and pool equipment companies that play fast and loose in their marketing information with half-truths and outright lies, which mislead people like you and I. An example is copper algae prevention, which they like to call a new technology, even though it's thousands of years old, and has been long replaced by chlorination for both drinking water and swimming pools.

I also wanted to minimize chemical use in my pool, which led me to troublefreepool. There's lots of great science here, along with decades of experience in thousands of pools. But best of all for me, is that Trouble Free Pool Care (TFPC) is actually already based on minimizing chemical use, in fact, it's a fundamental tenet of the system.

I enjoyed this thread when I started out: TFPC for Beginners

This next thread will break your brain, but it includes the explanations of proper and minimal chemical use in pool water: Pool Water Chemistry

It's a real shame that pool operators such as motels and typical pool service companies are allowed to leave such a poor impression of chlorination by allowing pools to become polluted with excessive chloramines and other by-products, along with algae and sometimes disease-causing pathogens, because of improper chlorination.

Thankfully, TroubleFreePool debunks all of it, and provides methods (and personalized help) to homeowners who want to minimize chemical use, and have safe, sparkly pools, using the best available chemistry and technology.

 

[Moniyque]

Thank you all. I am planning on using your method. The other questions were just things I'd been thinking about. And I had read that you guys aren't totally agains the silver/copper systems along with chlorine, and wanted to see if you think it's safe to lower the chlorine levels a little with the addition of those minerals.

- - - Updated - - -

Do I have to spray some sort of grass killer after removing the sod? If so is there a recommended brand?

 

[Texas Splash]

Actually, we do encourage members to refrain from using any mineral-based sanitation products. The sanitation provided is typically not adequate and the by-products added to the water (i.e. copper) have such negative consequences they far outweigh using them. Stick just to regular bleach or consider installing a SWG (Salt Water Generator) if automation convenience is your preference. Copper in water = no good.

The most important thing about chlorine (i.e. regular bleach, liquid shock, etc) is to ensure the FC level corresponds to the pool's current CYA (stabilizer) level (Please see the Chlorine/CYA Chart link below). When those two are balanced, sanitation and safety are well-managed. Have a nice weekend.