Hello my name is markymarks and I have a problem

[Markymarks]

Hello,

My name is markymarks and I have a problem. But its a good problem to have! We have a pool!

15' round above ground pool with 48" walls. This is year 2 with the pool

It's currently cloudy but the chemicals seem to all be good. Tested using some Leslie's strips the prior owner left that are not expired.
FC: 0.5
CC: 0.0
pH: 7.8
TA: 180
CH: 250

Biggest issue we have is that the vacuum isn't actually very much up. Using a non-robotic suction side vacuum. Have a Pentair sand filter that we replaced the valved on this year because it was cracked on the inlet port. Pump was also replaced as it was left with the house so figured why not. Can feel that the vacuum is working as if you put your hand near it, it has gentle suction. Will vacuum all the items we see on the bottom and then the next day there is dirt all over the bottom again. Small leak from the skimmer to the pump that I will take apart soon and tighten the fittings.

Any ideas what else to check? Bought a new vacuum head as the current one we are using is older and bristles are a a little bent over but don't expect this to make much difference.

Thanks!

 

[Wobblerlorri]

Welcome to TFP! The first thing to do is read ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry several times and browse Pool School. The next thing to do is check out Test Kits Compared and order a good test kit -- we call them "guess strips" for a reason!

Until you get your test kit, start adding enough liquid chlorine to bring your pool up to 5 ppm each day. When you get your test kit, please post your results in the format

FC
CC
pH
CYA
TA
CH
temp

I'm thinking you're going to need a SLAM Process.

 

[kellyfair]

I agree, and I’m thinking that dirt you are seeing is actually algae.

 

[Markymarks]

So ordered a kit from TFTest kits and it’s lost in the USPS system somewhere within 25 miles of our house for the last 3 days.

So started to SLAM-ish with liquid chlorine and the powdered shock the prior owner left us a bunch of.

Chlorine level last night an hour after adding the chlorine was a 10 on the guess strip and was a 10 again this morning. I know I’m fumbling around in the dark a bit but expected the chlorine levels to go way down and that didn’t happen. Is this normal? Pool is still cloudy.

another interesting thing I’ve found is that the pressure on the pump has never changed. Last year it stayed the same all year. I would backflush it after vacuuming. And so far this year it has stayed the same since opening. I backflush after vacuuming. Just doesn’t seem right to me since there Is water flow through the filter so it should be collecting things and the pressure should rise over time.

 

[IceShadow]

You could try a deep clean of the filter sand. Maybe it’s clumped and the water is channeling.

Hopefully your kit arrives soon. Without it you’re flying with a blindfold on.

 

[mmcwhorter]

Be careful with the powder IF it is stabilized. Over time, that'll drive CYA up above acceptable limits. Same thing with the 3-inch trichlor tabs. They killed me for years till I learned the TFT Method. My pool always had mustard algae, even at high CL levels for extended times.... Those darn 3" tabs will get you every time. Sounds like your filter is in "Bypass Mode", but does not want to be in that mode obviously. Does your filter have a RINSE setting? After a Backwash...it's a good idea to stir the sand. RINSE for 20 sec does this for you. I do it every time after a backwash...I agree with Ice Shadow, the channeling happened to me once and I made sure my last "new filter" had a RINSE option. You may have to open it up and stir the sand manually. There should be a description of this process in the owner manual for the filter. Or YouTube. If FC didn't change overnight (if the guess stick can be believed), that's good...and it also says that's not algae on your floor, but re-cycled dirt. Get the TFT-100 and measure per thread above...CYA: That's a real unknown here. Your TA is off the charts, needs to be much lower. MA can bring that down...If your CH is really 250, then you can use 73% CAL HYPO to SLAM, or of course Bleach (now that you can get it again). Till you get your test kit, I'd keep the FC at or near 10 with Bleach or Cal Hypo, be sure to mix Cal Hypo really well with water in a 5-gallon bucket before you add it. Sweep any particulate off the floor after adding.

 

[Markymarks]

Monday morning update...

Test kit still lost within 25 miles of my house since 10-Jun. No estimate for delivery. First time I've had this with USPS. 2 packages from PA were shipped on Friday and arrived Sunday which makes this all the more frustrating.

Deep cleaned the filter Saturday afternoon. Took about 2 hours for it to run clean. No clumps of anything but lots of small pieces and other times the water would be white. There did seem to be some areas where the sand was hard and I couldn't get the hose through but they eventually loosened up. Pump running continually since and no change in pressure. Gage does return to 0 when pump is off.

I've been adding 32 oz of bleach 3 times a day. Seems a bit more clear but not really. The water does not seem to have a color it, you just can't see through it.

Using the guess strips, below are the checks from this morning.
FC - 10
CC - 0
pH - 7.8
CYA - 0-40
TA -120
Total Hardness - 250
Temp - 73

Thanks for everyone's help really appreciate it!!

 

[mmcwhorter]

I wonder if the filter is stuck in some sort of a Bypass mode. Is there a handle that allows different modes, such as Backwasher/Waste/Bypass/Closed/Rinse/Recirculate? It just does not seem to be picking up the particulates it should be filtering is my guess. Thus, cloudy but not algae infestation. The particulate matter is being tossed out into the water and recirculated. Is there high pollen in the area? My pool will be milky white in high pollen, nothing you can do about it till it recedes. Be advised that bleach can be at different concentration levels, so it makes a difference. Read the label. The concentration of 5%? 7.5%? 11% are all possible. It would be useful to know. For example...Wal Mart concentrated store brand (Great Value) is 7.5% Good old fashioned "name brand" Chlorox off the laundry aisle is only around 5.5% and it's twice the price. But that level you added will get you up around 7-8 FC even at a lower concentration. Till you get that TFT=100, we are speculating. The good news is I'd say you can use your pool. Isn't all this Fun???

 

[Markymarks]

Sorry, said bleach meant 10% chlorine. Have an Ace close that is selling it for $3 a gallon right now so have stocked up to get through this.

Yes we have a filter valve like that. To be specific we have the Pentair 262506 valve. It is set to the filer position.
Pentair Sand - 15 Inch Top Mount Flange Multiport Backwash Valve
(Sorry for link to In The Swim, don't know if they are liked or not but all of the chemicals were left is from them and that is who I bought the valve from as I could not really find it any cheaper.

I do not know what exact filter we have as the stickers are gone and pool was installed when we bought the house. No manual left for the filter.

We do have the cottonwood balls floating around and I have been cleaning them out of the skimmer and pump basket daily. When skimming the pool though it is not just filling up with the cotton wood though so it seem like it is more something suspended in the water about 1.5-2 feet below the surface as that is as deep as we can see. (Can see 1st and 2nd step, first one is about 4-6 inches below water surface. Think I can see the 3rd faintly but also think that might be me just getting helpful).

Appreciate you saying we can use it. It's been cool here the last few days in SE MI so have not been wanting to but in the process have had the solar cover off so have lost 10 degrees of water temp.

For reference, last year we did fight low pH and alkalinity. Again, this was using guess strips but I kept it at the low end. I'm assuming the pH now is reading off partially because the FC is so high.

I do have some Clarifier from last year and I am tempted to dose the pool with that like it is just being opened to see if that helps as its been 3 days and the pool is not clearing up like I expected it to.

Good news is that the test kit finally left the distribution center 25 miles away. So hopefully tomorrow...Maybe today since we don't typically get the mail until after 5.

 

[mmcwhorter]

My pool water is perfectly clear when the cover comes off...but the water turns milky white is early spring when the pollen count is high. I think it's from Pine Trees and Oaks and who knows what else. I live near lots of trees. it's yellow dust. Not much you can do, and I have to backwash often. Just wait...Filter it out. I just live with it every year. Yellow baby powder. Early spring...It's still cold and we are not using the pool, only the heated Spa at that time. But it's ok to use it. Clarifier probably won't do you any good. It's just something the Pool Stores want to sell you. They do like to keep you right on the edge so you'll always need to buy "something"...No harm in trying clarifier....it's supposed to make pool particles glob together for easier filtering and backwashing might need to be more frequent. If the filter works, that is. I use about 4 oz by volume of diatomaceous earth every time I backwash..put it int he skimmer. This provides a similar effect as the Clarifier but in the filter. Let's wait for the test kit. Follow the instructions for all the tests and post. Knowledge is POWER. Maybe post a picture of your filter too.

 

[Wobblerlorri]

If you do use the clarifier, be sure to vacuum to WASTE and not run it through your filter. Clarifiers and flocculants gum up your filter and you'll have to change the sand.

 

[IceShadow]

Clarifier is something you add to the pool and disperses through the water. Not like floc which is supposed to settle at the bottom. So you can’t really vacuum to waste. It will just get in the sand and gum it up again.

Have you asked TFTtestKits about it to see if they can do anything on their end to track the package / get the carrier to trace it?

 

[mmcwhorter]

Yes, I agree with Ice...Best to stay away from both under reasonably normal conditions. A pool that as been sitting for years...ok, Floc away and Vac to waste.

 

[Markymarks]

Test kit arrived today.

Last evening - Brushed sides down and vacuumed Super slow as in 2 hours to do an 18' round AGP. Cleaned out both skimmer basket and pump basket at start, half way through and at end. First cleaning both had a lot of cotton wood but not at middle or end just some small pebbles and leafs. Pressure on the pump never changed.

TC - Dark Orange so 15-30
FC - 29
CC - 1
pH - 7.5
CYA - 50
TA - 275
CH - 550
Temp - 76

My wife and I did the tests together and agree on the numbers. For TA and CH maybe we are a 1 drop off from each other which doesn't change things much.

So looks like I need to get some muriatic acid and figure out how to aerate this pool....Where is it recommended to get muriatic acid from?

 

[Markymarks]

I was asked for pictures of the pool water and filter so here those are. Any help in finding out what model/size the filter is would be great. I feel like the sand is low but don't know what it should be.

3rd picture is of the skimmer. Looks a lot more stained than it does when I look in it so clearly I need to clean that. I have the vacuum fitting on the skimmer basket and every time I seat the vacuum fitting on the basket I start sucking air. I have added silicone lube on the hose to the fitting and the fitting to the base that covers the basket. The only way that I don't suck air is to have the hose fitting not totally cover the skimmer. Is this normal? I'm pretty sure that when I put the vacuum hose directly into the bottom of the skimmer I suck air as well. There is no other time that I suck air.

Last picture is on the vacuum hose to the fitting to the skimmer.

Before hooking up the vacuum to the skimmer I put the hose near the return to get all of the air out.

How can i tell if the vacuum hose or the fitting is the culprit before having to go to a pool store and swap it out?

 

[mguzzy]

Test kit arrived today.

YES!

Hold off adding any other chems until the SLAM is complete. The pH test isn't accurate when your FC is over 10!!

 

[IceShadow]

You don’t need to chase the TA lower. It will make your pH rise. You’ll add acid when the pH goes up to 8.0 - take it down to 7.2. The TA will drop at that time too. Time will make it go up again and you’ll add acid. Eventually TA will come down and the pH rise will take longer.

You will need MA but no reason to force the aeration.

At 50 CYA your SLAM level is 20. Let it come down to that. Test multiple times a day and add more to get to 20. Keep the pump going all the time. Scrub the walls, floor, skimmer, steps, everything.

 

[Markymarks]

Checked this morning again.

FC = 29
CC = 0

So what next? Last time I added chlorine was at 730 yesterday morning and it was about 14 oz.

Turned the pump off overnight as I was figuring the TA was my issue. I'll go turn it back on.

Last year using the strips and a few pool store trips I was always fighting low alkalinity and low pH so I was adding soda ash. Not sure if that contributed somewhat to this or not. All chlorine last year was from 68% calcium hypochlorite as that is what I was left. Still have 18 bags or so.

So does this look like algae to you folks?

 

[bmoreswim]

Hi Markymarks - We are right here with you but you do have the instructions we are following. Its the SLAM Process. I would recommend reading through it a second time. Pump should be running 24/7 during the SLAM. Your FC is higher than you SLAM level of 20, so no need to add until it drops to that. Yes, it's algae. Your FC got too low for your CYA and it started an algae bloom. Algae can be in clear pools, cloudy pools and green pools. Your's is a classic case. Don't worry about if you have it. You do. Otherwise keep FC at SLAM level by adjusting as needed up to several times a day. Keep going until you pass all 3 tests.

 

[mmcwhorter]

It looks like a Hayward Sand Filter to me, and an older model and slightly smaller than the one I have. Run the pump during SLAM. pH numbers useless until you get lower FC, below 10. So is the TC reading on the other side of the Taylor kit vial. Just use only the Cl Drop test during SLAM. The other numbers do not look bad actually. Your CH is at the high end for plaster (what I have) likely because of the 68 CAL Hypo.......but yours is a vinyl pool liner and I am not remembering how high you can go with vinyl. Probably not a big deal at all....unless you see scaling on your pool equipment. WHAT BOTHERS ME IS YOUR FILTER PRESSURE NEVER GOES UP. Something is not right there. Assuming you are killing the algae bloom and running the pump, pressure should rise. When I SLAM, I also brush occasionally to stir up the bad stuff and get it over to the filter. Pressure rises and I backwash. Also, it looks to me as if in the pic of your filter...the return filtered water line to the pool is not connected coming out of the multi-port valve. I assume that is just disconnected for some other reason and not normal ops. And I think I mentioned before, try a little DE in the filter by adding 2-3 oz by volume into the skimmer. Pressure will (should) rise immediately just a little, maybe one PSI...do it immediately after next backwash. Maybe a good idea to be careful to watch the return back into the pool....to see if the DE returned to the pool...milky white water a few seconds after pouring it in....that might tell you something about your filter. The sand filter should keep the DE in the filter.