Heaters...is there a comparative resource

[mcj115]

So the time of the season come where there starts being a chill in the air. The wife-y uni asked what about adding a heater. I've done a little research but want the experiences of others.

From what I gather there are several types of heaters. Heat pump heaters, Gas heaters, wood boiler heaters, solar heaters, solvar covers, etc.

Now my setting. inground 35k gallon pool, Pennsylvania, in the summer now it tops out around 83deg; today it is 68deg.

Now I'll ask from the cheapest to the most expensive, who knows it may be the least effective to the most effective.

Solar covers the floating bubble type. do these do anything? At minimum I would expect that these would retain heat in the pool, maybe not raise the pool temperature at all. I also would expect these to be a pain in the but to take on/off and store.

Solar heaters. These could be home brew or manufactured and powered by your pool pump or an external sump pump to circulate just the water through the heater array. Are these effective? I actually have a good southern exposure. These could be placed. I would expect these to actually warm the pool water but not raise it dramatically.

My final option that I see is a heat pump heater. These would be the most reliable but would be expensive to procure, install, and operate but they would work without issue.

Hey if experience of a solar cover and solar heaters could take me to the end of September comfortably then I would be happy. If I need a heat pump that may be a more difficult conversation with the wife.

Hey if this has all been covered before and you want to tell me to use the search function...please give me some key words/user names to narrow down that search!

Thanks.

 

[Catanzaro]

A solar cover is always a good idea. Best time to put on the pool is at night. Because of your pool, you would want a roll away reel or at least cut the cover in half and roll up to put away.

Gas heaters will heat up your pool faster (usually 1 degree per hour). The heat pump will heat your pool up about 1 degree every 2 hours. With a solar cover, the heat pump will keep up with a gas heater. If you use a solar cover with a gas heater, then the time is even faster. Most people choose gas heaters, but I decided on a heat pump because of vent clearance restrictions, etc.

You will pay about the same. The gas heater is less expensive, but the gas line is real expensive to install. The heat pump is almost twice as much, but the installation is a lot less if you can find a fair electrician, like I did. Below is the thread on my heat pump, which is extremely detailed.

Heat Pump recommendations - Gulf Stream

Heat Pump recommendations - Gulf Stream - Page 2

Quite honestly, you will use a solar cover (not all the time), but when needed most as the savings is worth it for the little effort to put on, take off and store away. In addition, right now with this weather, kids back to school, no one really is going to go in 85 degree water with air temperatures of 65-70 degrees. Each year I hope for a really few hot days in September and it never seems to come around.

Solar heaters do work, but you need enough panels to produce the results needed. The electrical inspector from my township said he has a lot and that is what was needed to heat up a pool of his size, which is very similar to yours.

Lastly, are you sure your pool is 35,000 gallons? A 20*40 with 5' deep all the way around is only 30,000 gallons. Typical vinyl liner pools are 3' in the shallow with scaling down to about 8' with a diving board and sloped walls.

 

[CJadamec]

If you are going to spend the money to heat the pool you are going to pretty much double the heating cost if you aren't using a solar blanket to limit the evaporative cooling.

Solar heat done well with real solar panels will give you very good results when you have good sun exposure. For a pool your size a solar panel system will easily cost 1500-5000 depending on the cost of the panels and controller package. The rule of thumb is you should match the surface area of your pool to the surface area of solar panels. In your case you are looking at 800 square feet for.

For an in ground pool your size you would need the biggest heat pump you could get and even then it would be very slow to change the temperature of your pool. A heat pump does a good job at maintaining a pool at temperature. A heat pump that size will cost around 4k. You will also need a dedicated 50amp electrical supply to run it. Depending on how far you need to run your wire that can get very expensive to install as well.

As for gas heat unless you have natural gas available I wouldn't even consider it. If you have natural gas its a strong contender as your easiest option. The upfront cost will probably be cheapest out of the 3. You can also get away with leaving your pool uncovered and just running it when you know you want the pool warm like just on the weekends. Gas will be the most expensive month to month in utility costs.

I was really happy with my heat pump when it was all I had to heat the pool it did a great job. I'm super happy that I added the solar panels now to work with the heat pump. I get free heat when its sunny and keep the pool warm on cloudy and rainy days with the heat pump. Pool stayed between 85-90 all summer long and now that its colder at night and the sun sets a little bit earlier in September its dropped down to 80-85. I keep a solar cover on the pool at all times if nobody is swimming.

 

[PoolGate]

I think if your primary purpose is to extend your season, the best option is natural gas, and if no natural gas is available, then propane. Heat pumps become progressively less efficient until they do nothing at all as the temp drops. Once it gets in the 60s I don't think it will do anything effective at all. Solar is about the same as the season progresses and the sun doesn't come up as much.

All forms of heaters will benefit from putting on the cover at night. However, heatpumps and solar rely on it or you will most likely have a net loss as they only deliver 1-2 degrees per day and your nightly losses could be 10-20 degrees. For gas heaters a cover will save you money and reduce the heat loss but they will work fine without using the cover and they will still heat your pool 1-2 degrees per hour.

If you want your pool above 85 in shoulder months I think gas is best and perhaps only option. You should figure $300-$500/month in heating costs for colder months with gas.

 

[Leebo]

For starters I'll agree a cover is a must regardless of what you're heating with. Next off, I'd like to fully agree with CJadamec above. If natural gas is an option they're a strong contender as they'll heat your pool regardless of the temp outside. I would run greatly from propane however as it's VERY expensive. Heat Pumps have came a long way in recent years and are now a viable option. We added one a few years ago and now maintain our pool around 88° from May-Sept. In April or October we will sometimes run it for the kids who are willing to get in when the temps are around 75° or so. Even in November a few years ago we ran it to have a swim as it was an oddly warm year. Our monthly cost is around $100-$130 as power prices in our area are fairly cheap for our 25k gallon pool.

If sized properly both heat pumps or gas heaters can deliver around 1° an hour depending on the external temperature. Heat pumps will deliver less in colder weather as they rely on heat in the air to work. The key here regardless of the type you buy is to buy the biggest one that you can.

 

[pooldv]

More of same from me. Get a cover.

I started with solar only and it helped a lot. My solar array is smallish, 240sf for a 700sf pool. Last September I added a small heat pump and a cover and we swam all of October and started again March 13th, water temp was 82 and up at all times. The cover +solar did more than the heat pump really. Temps are in the upper 50s at night and upper 70s, low 80s during the day. The pool is 90 with solar and the cover. The heat oump mostly supplement for rainy and cloudy times otherwise solar gets it done. Heat pumps work fine in the temps you would want to be swimming. They are efficient enough with temps in the 50s at night and 70s during the day.

More discussion about heating our pool in my pool thread, link in sig.

 

[Catanzaro]

If you look at my post and link, there is a spreadsheet that shows temperature increase every 30 minutes. Also, I tracked outside temperature, humidity, wind, and precipitation. Gas is the obvious choice not matter how you look it. But heat pumps are also an ideal option.

I chose the heat pump for a lot of reasons:

1) No more digging. I was tired of digging.
2) The vent clearance would have been tight and the unit would have to many bends and turns with piping causing flow restrictions at the pump.
3) Because of tight schedules here, we always know when the pool will be used the night before, or even the morning of. With a solar cover, I can easily get the pool up to 85* from 78-80 within 4-6 hours, or even start the night before.
4) With leaves fallings, kids in school, soccer and dance, before and after the summer, the pool is not used that often unless the weather becomes real hot. We do not go swimming when outside temperature is 70 degrees. NJ is a whole different world than other parts of the country (I guess good and bad).

Next year, I will perform other testing with the heat pump in May and I also will run a test in about a week from now to see how long the pool takes to heat up. FWIW, the heat pump and gas heater would have cost the about the same. The key is to find an electrician who is fair. It appears that running a gas line in NJ is a monopoly, but the electricians have a huge range. I had quotes from $1,750 to $500. I chose the $500 electrician who was used in the past and the township passed all my inspections. The 6/2 wire of 125 feet is only $110 at Lowes. A homeowner could even have the wire ready from the panel to the outside. In addition, no trench has to be dug. A conduit can be used with a box outside. 3 wires (2 hot and 1 ground).

 

[mcj115]

Thanks all for the feedabck.

1) Catanzaro you seem to know the dimensions of my pool better than I as you just about perfectly described it.. The 35k gallons was cocktail napkin math--I'll revise to 30k gallons.
2) Sadly no gas is available in my neighborhood. So my choices are limited to electric, solar, or propane if needed.
3) I'll procure a solar cover as it doesn't seem like a bad idea in general to keep temperature. what specs shoudl I look for? How many mils and what color?
4) Next spring I may "play" with a one singular home brew 4x4 solar heater. We are wanting to build a wall a ~10' high x 60' long versa-loc wall to give more usable space by the pool in the near future that will have direct southern exposure. I need to "play" around to see if there is a way to utilize the face of that wall as a base for a solar array.

Generally from what everyone describes I solar is probably what I want, before spending the ~5k on a heat pump.

 

[Catanzaro]

I'll procure a solar cover as it doesn't seem like a bad idea in general to keep temperature. what specs shoudl I look for? How many mils and what color?

I have 12 mil, but honestly, you can go with something lighter. The solar cover is designed primarily to keep heat in at night through evaporation. Yes, you will get heat retention, but the cover needs to be on for days. You will get about 6 degrees at most. You should also peel back the cover every day (at least 50% of the pool) and allow to breathe or your CC will climb and PH will drop.

Regarding your situation a small 4*4 solar heater will not work on this pool. I would contact the manufacturers, and then when the sun is only around for a few hours, this will not help either. A heat pump, solar combination will work, but the solar cover along with a heat pump will do wonders. You have to be religious about using the solar cover.

I could have had the heat pump plumbed for about $400. The heater was $2,900. The electrician was $500. Total cost would have been around $3,800. Although, I spent more $$$ on the SWG system, and extra's. For some reason, he increased his price for the SWG, and then an extra $300 for the pad, chlorinator, post, cap, sleeve, glue, etc. Total cost was $5,911, but I have everything I need when need the most. I can use the SWG, pucks, liquid chlorine, etc. In the end, I just wanted this done and was not willing to keep shopping for $300 dollars less. Almost everyone else wanted even more money for the services.

Your pool is double the volume of mine and the heat pump will need to be oversized. In my thread above, I even created a spreadsheet that shows heating time and cost based on Kwh in my area. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[CJadamec]

Get the cheapest solar cover you can find. Regardless of all the claims on the sales literature solar covers will all last about 2-3 years then you need to replace them. Color doesn't matter. Get the color you like or the one that matches your patio furniture. Technically plastic wrap, if you could get it to cover the pool, would work just as well as the most expensive cover you can find.

I've never had any issues with leaving the cover on the pool. I've gone at least 2 weeks without removing the cover and have never had any pH of CC issues. Actually I've never measured CC's in my pool I check for them like a good lil student never found them tho.

 

[Catanzaro]

I've never had any issues with leaving the cover on the pool. I've gone at least 2 weeks without removing the cover and have never had any pH of CC issues. Actually I've never measured CC's in my pool I check for them like a good lil student never found them tho.

Lucky you. I have never CC's in the pool with the cover on, but after 3 days, my PH drops from 7.5 to 7.2. I have never gone any longer than this and quickly aerate back to 7.5. Some pools act different.

 

[sleepysdad]

My two cents as a new pool owner:

I got propane as we already had a tank near the house for our water heater. Having a company rent you a tank wont cost much but it will need to be a certain distance from the heater so you will need to dig a line. But only a short distance.

I use a solar cover 23 out 24 hours per day. This does help retain substantial heat.

For my pool (11k gallon) my pentair can increase the temperature by 2 degrees per hour based on my experience. The spec says 40 degrees in 24 hours. I burn propane at 2 gallons per hour. Makes the math easy, 1 gallon per degree. I believe you would be looking at double that rate (or more) to heat a pool your size.

Our climate is almost identical. This week I've set my pump for three hours per day with schedule between 5-8 and take a swim at 7. I've hit 80 every day this week before 7 (within two hours). When its 65 outside 80 feels plenty warm for me and son, but the ladies have experienced 85 and will no longer settle for 80.

I've done a completely heated weekend (24/7) at 85 degrees labor day weekend and burned 30 gallons of gas..

I'm need to confirm but wife says we're paying shy on $2/gallon.

I hope this helps you judge the cost of operation in your neck of the woods.