Hayward pump shaft seals

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Just a few shots in the dark:

Is external contamination a possible cause? I'm just thinking that if the pump/motor is in a sandy, dusty or otherwise "dirty" area you may be transferring that stuff to the seal and causing a failure.

Is the motor running at the rated speed for the pump? I'm not sure how tight these tolerances are but in theory you would be able to run the motor shaft so fast that the seal fails from excess friction and heat.

Could other nearby items or other environmental issues be raising the seals ambient temperature to a failure point? You mentioned a heater. Another possible cause may be direct sunlight overheating things.

I am in no way a "Pump Guru" but just thinking out loud. It may even be a few things that by themselves are "within tolerable limits" but coupled together are causing problems.
 
I have a 1 HP Hayward Super Pump. I have had to replace seals twice in the past. Both times from my own fault. I used to pour ALL my chemicals right into the skimmer and also use trichlor pucks in the the skimmer. Dichlor granuals, in the skimmer. Algecide, in the skimmer. Clarifier, in the skimmer. pH down, in the skimmer. You get the idea.

First time the seals went out, I just chalked it up to age. Second time the seals went out, it was within a couple of days of putting the pH down (dry acid) into the skimmer. So I had the "a haa" moment and made the correlation that acid eats up the rubber seal.

This year I switched to the BBB method, so no algecide or trichlor pucks. However I still sometimes cheat and add bleach, baking soda, and borax into the skimmer if I am too lazy to pull the safety pool cover up. But NEVER any acid. Acid ONLY slowly poured in front of a return jet.

So to state the obvious, are you pouring any chemicals into the suction side of the pump? Do you have an automated chlorinator downstream with a bad check valve?
 
@alben

I've only had to add CYA when I open and bleach daily (I only get to follow the 'B' method :) ). CYA goes in a sock in front of a return as recommended by most on this forum and bleach goes in right in front of the deep end return that is at least 16 feet from the skimmer, so it's had some time to dilute before it gets there. This has happened with three new pumps, one new motor and all seals being factory sealed and opened and installed by the pool builder service guys (and the service manager this last time.)

I'm waiting to see what effect bonding the motor, heater and totally removing the underwater light are going to have. The only thing that goes into the skimmer is DE when I add that to my sand filter and I've been running without that for the last two months because the water looks great without it.

@ShockerLU3

The pump sits on a concrete pad, but when it rains, there is some dirt splash-up on the side of the pump, but it's minimal. The service guys didn't mention it, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be a consideration. I'm a little skeptical that it could be getting into the seal though, but I may see what I can do to minimize that.

It does get direct sun for part of the evening, but not during the hottest part of the day. Again, I have trouble thinking that this is the problem. I don't really have a good way to shade it and probably won't even try that route until the pool service department stops servicing it under warranty.

It's a 110/220 volt pump wired for 110 that came matched with the pump housing (3/4 hp Super Pump). I don't know how it couldn't be running at it's rated speed for the pump. Can you explain that more?

Thanks.
 
I was just kind of thinking out loud of possible causes. Being that the pump and motor are factory matched units I doubt that's the issue. I was thinking more along the line of custom pump/motor combos, if such a thing exists. The other ways to "over speed" an AC motor are not just unlikely but would cause other issues as well. I would also think that if the motor was running significantly faster than it should a trained service manager would be able to recognize it.
 
I have a Hayward Power Flow Matrix 1.5 HP and keep blowing pump seals too. I have had my 24' above ground pool for 4 years and have had 3 pumps (same type pump all 3 times, the last pump is going on its 3rd seal now). Unfortunately I didn't catch the seal in time with the first two pumps, so the bearings blew out and ruined the motor.

With the last pump, I caught the seal leak early enough. Our pool place here in WNY replaced the seal about 2 weeks ago (7/15) and this morning (7/27) I went out to check the pool - and the seal is leaking again! So I'm onto seal #3 I guess.

I use Baquacil and regularly get my water checked. I've never had any major issues with pH or other levels. Sometimes have to adjust pH a little (still within 7.2-7.8 range) or aklalinity.
As far as I can tell the pump isn't running dry. I have the original hayward sand filter installed 4 years ago. It consistently reads about 11lbs pressure - don't know if thats normal or not. I put all my chemicals in past the return jet, so its not right by the skimmer. I vacuum the pool about once a week with the filter and skimmer basket in. I backwash every once in a while to clear out the algae sitting in the sand (which by the way, the green algae this year and last have been horrible). I have been having to add 2-3oz of algaecide regularly to try to keep up with it.

My pool place is getting sick of me, but no one has any ideas why the seals keep failing. They at least warranteed the 2nd pump and last seal (labor wasn't included though). But this 3rd pump isn't under Hayward warranty anymore (from last May).

I can't keep blowing through seals like this, as you stated before too loughps. Any feedback or insight would be greatly appreciated! No one seems to have an answer.
 
It's only been about two weeks since I added the bonding wire to the pump and heater and removed the light. There's no leak so far, but it hasn't really been enough time to tell if my problem is solved -- I've gone two weeks before and then at four weeks had a leak again. I'm fortunate that the pool store has been great to work with. If it wasn't for that, I can would have installed a new NON-Hayward pump by now. If I were in your shoes, the first thing I would try would be to call Hayward and talk to them directly every time you have to install a new shaft seal and see if they can be of any assistance, or at least so they know there is some kind of problem in the field. I know the pool store has contacted them, but I don't get the sense there is widespread problems, so it may be that Hayward knows or feels it's not a manufacturing issue (and I'm not saying it is either, I just have no idea what's going on at this point.)

Good luck to you and I'll post more as I see what happens with this seal.

As far as your green algae goes, you may want to read on this site (especially Pool School) and consider converting from Bacquacil to liquid chlorine following the BBB method. You may not have enough sanitizer in your water to keep up with the algae. If you convert and maintain your chlorine level based on your CYA (stabilizer) level, I think you'll see the algae problem go away. If this is something you'd like to consider, I'd suggest reading about some conversions and ask some questions to see if this makes sense for you.
 
Thanks.

My pool place told me I need to contact Hayward directly. They don't know why the latest seal would fail after only 2 weeks. So they've currently washed their hands of it. I told them I'd let them know what Hayward said, because I'm sure it'll be the blame game now - "they must have installed the new seal improperly".

I'll look forward to your results.
 
Thanks for the reply. Yes, as far as I know it is. We had an electrician hook up a dedicated 20 amp circuit, which runs into a master switch then dedicated timer box which feeds into a GFI outlet. The pump is plugged into this GFI circuit and a ground wire run directly into the circuit by the electrician and hooked into the back of the pump with the screw mount.

Is there something I should check to confirm this?
 
There should be a lug on the outside of the motor specifically for bonding. There should be a solid #8 wire in this lug going to the rest of the pool equipment. The grounding that you mentioned is completely different than bonding.
 

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Agree with Bama. Mine already had all you mentioned, but the not the bonding wire, which is on the outside of the pump and separate from the electrical wiring. This connects the pump to the bonding system for the pool, which is different from electrical ground. I still don't know if this is the problem, but it's something I was missing and, so far, my seal is holding.
 
I checked and believe its bonded correctly. If it wasn't, wouldn't it cause more motor problems first, not a seal failure first? But I'm not an electrician :)

As an update, I contacted Hayward directly last Friday and they are sending out a replacement pump and were very apologetic for the repeated troubles and are very interested to get more information on the setup and environment that may be causing the seals to fail so quickly and pumps to fail. They are being extremely responsive to this point - I was very impressed and surprised. But I'll have to keep you posted - the underlying problem probably hasn't gone away. So hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it.
 
The primary purpose in bonding is to prevent voltage gradients between the different components in the pool caused by stray current in order to avoid shocks and should not have an effect on normal operation.

Pre-mature seal failure, however, could be caused by an imbalance in the impeller load. But that is usually only caused when operating well away from the best efficiency point of the pump. Either very high head loss or very low head loss plumbing. But with a 3/4 HP SuperPump, that is usually not an issue because the loads are much smaller with a low HP pump. What is the filter pressure?
 
Number of years at house with pool - 6
Number of NEW Hayward pumps - 3
Number of new shaft seals - I wish I knew...

And to top it all off, I didn't catch a leaking shaft seal early enough last year and my pump motor is completely frozen up. I can't even get it to turn with vice grips and a hammer.

So, I'm going to either be buying a new motor for the Hayward SP2605X7 (because it's out of warranty and the pool store wouldn't even replace shaft seals under warranty last year) OR a new pump (which will NOT be a Hayward pump, if for no other reason than general principal.)

Before I go out and buy a new pump, I wanted to ask - if I've been replacing shaft seals the last three pumps at least every two months and sometimes as often as two weeks AND if me and the pool store can find no reason this should be happening, how likely am I to face this with another brand of pump? My current thought is to replace it with a Pentaire 3/4 HP pump, but if I'm likely to just keep having the same issue, I'll replace the motor since it's about half the cost of a new pump.

Any help, advice, questions, input or general sympathy is appreciated.

-- Pete
 
Without knowing what was causing the premature failure of so many seals it's impossible to say whether you're likely to have the same problem with a new pump. If you had multiple seal failures on one pump then it would most likely be attributed to that pump, but if you had multiple failures on multiple pumps then it seems likely that it's something unrelated to the pump and therefore a different brand of pump may have the same issues.

If your pool & equipment isn't bonded properly that could set up eddy currents and cause strange bearing issues but shouldn't cause seal issues by themselves.
 
In June 2010 with the help of the pool service manager, we made sure everything above ground that we can get a connection to is bonded. As to what's going on under the ground, I have no idea. Are there any things I can check at the surface that will give me more assurance that the whole system is bonded?

The pool as built in 1994 with the house. We bought it in 2006, so I've never seen under the surface. I guess I'd rather replace seals all year long than dig up everything for a bonding issue, but it would still be nice to confidently say that it's all correct.

The pool service manager was at a loss, as was their Hayward rep (they even sent the last pump they took out back to Hayward, but I never heard if they felt they found a cause.) My wife is ready to kill me for telling her I need a new motor or new pump - again.

-- Pete
 
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