Getting sick of putting chlorine in

[Rodex]

Just starting the journey into SWCGs, here’s a picture of my equipment. Any thoughts on placement or should I find a specific model first?

I have tried to read all the posts about concerns with the type of stones that I have for my flagstone and waterfall (pics also attached). Honestly, they are already not in great shape and when we got a quote for redoing the coping stones and tile work, they quoted replacing them all because they would likely get destroyed. Fine by me, not a huge fan of that aesthetic anyways, so if a SWCG degrades the life of the stone a little, I’m not too concerned. However, I did see this weird looking rust colored spot, which I had originally chalked up to some crappy sealant, but wondering if it’s actually rust. If so, would SWCG cause some bigger issue with that?

I am also curious about the current salt content - would the test strips suffice just to get an idea?

 

[Rodex]

Hmmm for some reason I can’t upload the two pictures I took of the stone. Let me reduce and reload.

 

[Rodex]

Ok, got it

 

[mguzzy]

you aren't gong to experience any more degradation to your stone work with an SWG that you already have. The salinity required for an SWG is ~3400ppm, that is half of your tears. As you have seen, your flagstones are having issues and you don't even have an SWG, yet!

As to testing your existing salinity I recommend you get the K1766 test kit. That is the drop test for salinity. You have a nice long strait pile out of your filter.. that is a perfect place for the cell and should be an easy install. Check out here for a good comparison of all the brands.
Compare and Review Saltwater Chlorine Generator Prices and Features | DSP

Keep in mind you want a SWG twice the rated size of your pool's volume.. so with a 10K pool you want something rated for 20K or higher. The higher you go the longer the SWG will last for you, theoretically.

Another thing to consider is if you plan to add automation to your pool. Some SWG integrate with automation setups better, and other work fine as stand alone units. Others will chime in... Putting in a SWG was the best home improvement decision I every made. You won't regret it.

 

[Rodex]

you aren't gong to experience any more degradation to your stone work with an SWG that you already have. The salinity required for an SWG is ~3400ppm, that is half of your tears. As you have seen, your flagstones are having issues and you don't even have an SWG, yet!

As to testing your existing salinity I recommend you get the K1766 test kit. That is the drop test for salinity. You have a nice long strait pile out of your filter.. that is a perfect place for the cell and should be an easy install. Check out here for a good comparison of all the brands.
Compare and Review Saltwater Chlorine Generator Prices and Features | DSP

Keep in mind you want a SWG twice the rated size of your pool's volume.. so with a 10K pool you want something rated for 20K or higher. The higher you go the longer the SWG will last for you, theoretically.

Another thing to consider is if you plan to add automation to your pool. Some SWG integrate with automation setups better, and other work fine as stand alone units. Others will chime in... Putting in a SWG was the best home improvement decision I every made. You won't regret it.

Awesome, thanks! Yeah any damage that could be caused to the stones, I’m not worried about. If that rust spot is not a concern, then cool!

I haven’t really considered automation, the timer boxes seem to work fine and keep me near the equipment to check on everything, I’ve noticed when I automate something I stop paying attention to it (also happens when we add automation to our manufacturing processes ). Is there some advantage I’m overlooking?

Thanks for the comparison table, the prices seem reasonable. I guessed at 10k gal, I have some notes where I tried to calculate myself and got 11k and Leslie’s estimated 12.8k. So to be safe, plan on 25k?

 

[mguzzy]

I haven’t really considered automation, the timer boxes seem to work fine and keep me near the equipment to check on everything, I’ve noticed when I automate something I stop paying attention to it (also happens when we add automation to our manufacturing processes ). Is there some advantage I’m overlooking?

I have old school Intermatic timers ..and a single speed pump, they suffice for my setup as well. I couldn't seem to justify the cost for saving 20 steps to the pool equipment to flip the valves when I turn on the spa. so there. Will you be installing it yourself? its not really that difficult, if you can work with PVC and not glue your fingers together.

Thanks for the comparison table, the prices seem reasonable. I guessed at 10k gal, I have some notes where I tried to calculate myself and got 11k and Leslie’s estimated 12.8k. So to be safe, plan on 25k?

Yeah so look at a 20K SWG minimum.. Discount pools has a deal with some of their units that if you buy the next one up its only 10 bux more. So a bump up to a 40K won't hurt you a bit. There is a chem test you can do that will give your pools volume. I should find it and post it here for you...

 

[Rodex]

I have old school Intermatic timers ..and a single speed pump, they suffice for my setup as well. I couldn't seem to justify the cost for saving 20 steps to the pool equipment to flip the valves when I turn on the spa. so there. Will you be installing it yourself? its not really that difficult, if you can work with PVC and not glue your fingers together.


Yeah so look at a 20K SWG minimum.. Discount pools has a deal with some of their units that if you buy the next one up its only 10 bux more. So a bump up to a 40K won't hurt you a bit. There is a chem test you can do that will give your pools volume. I should find it and post it here for you...

Yep, I assume it’s similar to any other PVC work - clean edges, clean surface, glue, rotate to distribute? Safe to assume I should look out for specific glue for this application?

 

[mguzzy]

Pretty much.. regular PVC cement.. and a primer. I've never used anything special. Just follow the instructions for that particular SWG to accommodate the amount of straight pipe they need running into the SWG and for the Flow switch. Most SWG manufactures post the installation manuals on line so you won't get any surprises before you buy.

So the Stealth Jandy is a two speed pump, correct? You just need to wire the SWG into the timer that runs your pump.. that way the SWG controller gets power only when the pump gets power. At some point we all will get forced into getting VS pumps, and they have their own built in timers, but you can't wire anything off them. So you will continue to use your timer for the SWG.

 

[Rodex]

Pretty much.. regular PVC cement.. and a primer. I've never used anything special. Just follow the instructions for that particular SWG to accommodate the amount of straight pipe they need running into the SWG and for the Flow switch. Most SWG manufactures post the installation manuals on line so you won't get any surprises before you buy.

So the Stealth Jandy is a two speed pump, correct? You just need to wire the SWG into the timer that runs your pump.. that way the SWG controller gets power only when the pump gets power. At some point we all will get forced into getting VS pumps, and they have their own built in timers, but you can't wire anything off them. So you will continue to use your timer for the SWG.

It’s a single speed is far as I know. I’ve never seen a switch or heard it operate at any other speed. I’ll get a better estimate of pool size. Thanks for all the help, I’ll look at these models and see which one we like and report back!

 

[mguzzy]

I just looked it up.. it came in a two and single speed version.. you must have the single speed version.

 

[Rodex]

I have old school Intermatic timers ..and a single speed pump, they suffice for my setup as well. I couldn't seem to justify the cost for saving 20 steps to the pool equipment to flip the valves when I turn on the spa. so there. Will you be installing it yourself? its not really that difficult, if you can work with PVC and not glue your fingers together.


Yeah so look at a 20K SWG minimum.. Discount pools has a deal with some of their units that if you buy the next one up its only 10 bux more. So a bump up to a 40K won't hurt you a bit. There is a chem test you can do that will give your pools volume. I should find it and post it here for you...

The only chem test I could find searching the forum is here:
Post in thread 'Pool size, gallons?'
Pool size, gallons?

...where it looks like you drop muriatic acid in and see the change in pH to dial in the volume....seems challenging considering the repeatability of my pH meter, but maybe a large enough delta could reduce the effect of the measurement variance?

 

[mguzzy]

This is the one I was referring to where an Alkalinity test is performed before and after on a known addition of sodium bicarb to calculate the pool's volume. The poster says the calculated pool volume should accurate to around 5% .

A Chemical Way of Calculating Pool Volume

There is a way to use pool water chemistry to calculate pool water volume without using the traditional geometric calculations. The geometric formulas are fine for pools that are traditionally shaped. However, when pools do not fall into these convenient shapes, a chemical method can be used...

www.troublefreepool.com

Over the years I had assumed my pool was around 25K.. because that is what the pool store told me... after years of over shooting my targets and then discovering TFP where I gained a better understanding of the "Effects of Adding" I now know I am closer to 20K.

 

[Rodex]

This is the one I was referring to where an Alkalinity test is performed before and after on a known addition of sodium bicarb to calculate the pool's volume. The poster says the calculated pool volume should accurate to around 5% .

A Chemical Way of Calculating Pool Volume

There is a way to use pool water chemistry to calculate pool water volume without using the traditional geometric calculations. The geometric formulas are fine for pools that are traditionally shaped. However, when pools do not fall into these convenient shapes, a chemical method can be used...

www.troublefreepool.com

Over the years I had assumed my pool was around 25K.. because that is what the pool store told me... after years of over shooting my targets and then discovering TFP where I gained a better understanding of the "Effects of Adding" I now know I am closer to 20K.

Oh, neat. My TA settles around 90 and pH is always high, so I would probably use the muriatic acid version. Thanks! I’m surprised this isn’t pinned somewhere or part of the TFP intro pages, that would have been handy a few times over the past couple years.

 

[Rodex]

Looking around some more, it seems like flow rate is important for SWCG performance, I have never really checked that. I see the FlowVis on TFT, I am pretty sure I have a Jandy check valve on the main pump there (and some other check valve on the waterfall that actually needs to be replaced, it leaks). Worth it to install to actually measure flow rate?

 

[Rodex]

Oh, neat. My TA settles around 90 and pH is always high, so I would probably use the muriatic acid version. Thanks! I’m surprised this isn’t pinned somewhere or part of the TFP intro pages, that would have been handy a few times over the past couple years.

So....started doing this, but adding that much acid made me nervous to bring the pH that low (even 1 qt would drop it to 7.3. 2 quarts would be 6.7). So I just dropped 2 cups in to see the delta pH, which at 11k gallons, the app was only high by 0.1 after 2 hours. Seems like it’s safe to say that 11k is roughly correct, at least for this purpose. I’m going to dump some chlorine in tonight to see if it agrees.

 

[Rodex]

So life happened and a slab leak, a broken water heater, and dilapidated HVAC ductwork later.....

I think we narrowed down to the Circupool RJ30-plus and EDGE 25. Probably leaning towards the Edge as it looks like a newer controller.

Any watchouts like expensive cell replacement compared to other models? Looks like the sale ends tomorrow, I’ll probably miss it

 

[EricJ320]

I wouldn't worry to much about the sale ending. I purchased an Edge 40 last spring from DSP, and while the base price has gone up slightly, like most things recreation related during the pandemic, the same $10 upgrade sale was going on then, as it is now. On occasion it seems to change to a $1 upgrade. They do a good job convincing you that the sale is going to end soon but in my limited number of times on their site in the past year since I purchased it never seemed to end.

As for the Edge, it’s been great, although as my first SWG I don’t have much to compare it to, but I can’t imagine what I would want improved. As for the Edge vs the RJ, I ended up with the Edge mostly for aesthetic reasons since it would be visible on our pool deck. It’s a much sleeker and almost cool design, especially at night. Also the replacement cell is much cheaper than the RJ. The RJ has a display and .3 lbs higher chlorine production rating, but I knew even at that time the salt readings were not terribly reliable, so it wasn’t a huge issue for me to not have it, and I didn’t feel .3 lbs less was a deal breaker for the Edge. It was the DIY ability and the 7 year warranty (cell included) that sold me on Circupool and I zero regrets about it. At the end of the day, you can’t go wrong with either units.

 

[Rodex]

I wouldn't worry to much about the sale ending. I purchased an Edge 40 last spring from DSP, and while the base price has gone up slightly, like most things recreation related during the pandemic, the same $10 upgrade sale was going on then, as it is now. On occasion it seems to change to a $1 upgrade. They do a good job convincing you that the sale is going to end soon but in my limited number of times on their site in the past year since I purchased it never seemed to end.

As for the Edge, it’s been great, although as my first SWG I don’t have much to compare it to, but I can’t imagine what I would want improved. As for the Edge vs the RJ, I ended up with the Edge mostly for aesthetic reasons since it would be visible on our pool deck. It’s a much sleeker and almost cool design, especially at night. Also the replacement cell is much cheaper than the RJ. The RJ has a display and .3 lbs higher chlorine production rating, but I knew even at that time the salt readings were not terribly reliable, so it wasn’t a huge issue for me to not have it, and I didn’t feel .3 lbs less was a deal breaker for the Edge. It was the DIY ability and the 7 year warranty (cell included) that sold me on Circupool and I zero regrets about it. At the end of the day, you can’t go wrong with either units.

Sounds like I would also want the Edge. Thanks!

 

[Rodex]

you aren't gong to experience any more degradation to your stone work with an SWG that you already have. The salinity required for an SWG is ~3400ppm, that is half of your tears. As you have seen, your flagstones are having issues and you don't even have an SWG, yet!

As to testing your existing salinity I recommend you get the K1766 test kit. That is the drop test for salinity. You have a nice long strait pile out of your filter.. that is a perfect place for the cell and should be an easy install. Check out here for a good comparison of all the brands.
Compare and Review Saltwater Chlorine Generator Prices and Features | DSP

Keep in mind you want a SWG twice the rated size of your pool's volume.. so with a 10K pool you want something rated for 20K or higher. The higher you go the longer the SWG will last for you, theoretically.

Another thing to consider is if you plan to add automation to your pool. Some SWG integrate with automation setups better, and other work fine as stand alone units. Others will chime in... Putting in a SWG was the best home improvement decision I every made. You won't regret it.

Got the 1766 test kit in, pool tested at only 1200 ppm. Seems lower than expected, considering the 3400 ppm requirement of the SWCG. I was hoping it would already be close to the salinity of a saltwater pool per a lot of the forum threads I read. Is there a risk of speeding up deterioration with that big of an increase?

 

[mknauss]

Is there a risk of speeding up deterioration with that big of an increase?

What would deteriorate?

Add about 2/3rds of the salt needed to go from your current salinity to your target. Let that dissolve and circulate for a day or two. Test the salinity and then add the balance needed to get to the target level.