Getting Prepared to Install a Stenner

[garyengr]

Thanks - didn't happen by design, happened because I got tired of pack rats undermining the previous precast concrete equipment pads and chewing all the insulation out of a heater. Got rid of the heater as we didn't use it much and then had brick pavers put in to make digging difficult for the pack rats.


Gary

Forgot to mention when we installed the pavers, they are tight between the wall and house foundation. Our Master Bedroom and bath are right by the pool equipment. We originally had a 2 hp single speed pump. When I hooked it back up after the pavers were installed, the vibration (60 hz) was very noticeable in our bedroom. We got rid of the 2 hp single speed pump and went with a Variable Speed pump and as long as the speed was less than 2000 RPM, the vibration was hardly noticeable. To further reduce noise/vibration, I installed the pump on a small precast pad and placed rubber/cork/rubber anti-vibration pads between the precast pad and pavers. At full speed you can still sense a vibration but at 2000 or less it is not noticeable.


Gary

 

[dubbedout]

I've been predominately buying Walmart HTH Chlorine (10%) that has been running $13.99 for two cartons of two gallons including taxes. The last I bought had a date code of B1465 (believe this means 146th day of 2015, which is May 26th) and the first 12 gallons I loaded had a date code of B1315. I haven't measured the strength but probably should, although the pool math prediction for FC ppm increase with quantity of Chlorine added has matched what I experience which should be a good indication I am using 10% Chlorine. I have bought some from Lowes but was careful to get the latest date code they had - was running me $14.83 including tax for 4 gallons. This site has a "Sticky" in "The TFPC Method" forum titled "Best Places to Buy Liquid Chlorine. For Tucson they list E-Konomy Pool who they list as selling 12% HASA Chlorine in refillable containers for $13.96 for 4 gallons. I have not checked them out yet but will later. They don't mention any one for the Phoenix area.

Gary

Just chiming in about the LC available in the East Valley. I get my HASA 12.5% LC from A&M Corson's in Gilbert. They have 5 locations in the valley. This is the highest percentage of LC I have been able to find locally, plus I don't have all the waste of empty bleach bottles anymore. You put down a deposit for the crate and bottles, you return your empties for full ones. Costs about $15 before tax.

 

[ViperGTSR6]

Just chiming in about the LC available in the East Valley. I get my HASA 12.5% LC from A&M Corson's in Gilbert. They have 5 locations in the valley. This is the highest percentage of LC I have been able to find locally, plus I don't have all the waste of empty bleach bottles anymore. You put down a deposit for the crate and bottles, you return your empties for full ones. Costs about $15 before tax.

I may move to that location to purchase LC but for now I am going to NPS Pool and Spa Supply who also has locations around the valley. Their sale on LC runs through June and is $5 for 2 gallons of 10%. When I purchased 8 gallons, it was fresh. Bottled about 10 days prior. The salesman indicated that when it goes off sale the price will go up to $6.50. Still not bad. I figure I will complete my SLAM with LC purchased at NPS through their sale but if I move to a chlorine automation with a pump and tank, I will be looking for a consistent location so I don't have to research the latest sales.

For the chlorine automation, would it be wise to buy 12.5% chlorine that will sit in a tank outdoors for up to 30 days before it is all used?

 

[dubbedout]

I may move to that location to purchase LC but for now I am going to NPS Pool and Spa Supply who also has locations around the valley. Their sale on LC runs through June and is $5 for 2 gallons of 10%. When I purchased 8 gallons, it was fresh. Bottled about 10 days prior. The salesman indicated that when it goes off sale the price will go up to $6.50. Still not bad. I figure I will complete my SLAM with LC purchased at NPS through their sale but if I move to a chlorine automation with a pump and tank, I will be looking for a consistent location so I don't have to research the latest sales.

For the chlorine automation, would it be wise to buy 12.5% chlorine that will sit in a tank outdoors for up to 30 days before it is all used?

This is the main reason I haven't gone with chlorine automation, the heat. I know the dark containers help, but with our AZ summers I'm hesitant to move forward with it. My pool equipment has a tree right over it so it's shaded...I may place a thermometer where I'd place it and see how hot it really gets there.

 

[garyengr]

This is the main reason I haven't gone with chlorine automation, the heat. I know the dark containers help, but with our AZ summers I'm hesitant to move forward with it. My pool equipment has a tree right over it so it's shaded...I may place a thermometer where I'd place it and see how hot it really gets there.

I would not be too concerned with using 12.5% chlorine if you have a decent sized pool. There is a thread on this site which discusses Shelf-Life-for-Liquid-Chlorine and provides a link to an article which indicates the half life of 10% chlorine at 90 degrees F is 115 days (nearly four months). With my 15 gallon tank, in the middle of the summer, I anticipate the tank with be down to 1 to 2 gallons in about 45 days. If the tank does not receive direct sunlight, I doubt the chlorine will ever exceed 90 degrees by much. Given the tank started at 10%, with a half life of 115 days, the concentration would drop to 7.6% at 45 days and average about 8.8% over the 45 days. Estimating the half life for 12.5% to be approximately 81 days from the link, gives a concentration of 8.5% at 45 days and an average across the 45 days of 10.4%.



Gary

 

[garyengr]

Just chiming in about the LC available in the East Valley. I get my HASA 12.5% LC from A&M Corson's in Gilbert. They have 5 locations in the valley. This is the highest percentage of LC I have been able to find locally, plus I don't have all the waste of empty bleach bottles anymore. You put down a deposit for the crate and bottles, you return your empties for full ones. Costs about $15 before tax.

Dubbedout: Suggest you reply to this thread, Best-Places-to-Buy-Liquid-Chlorine, to have the Phoenix area source added to the list.


Gary

 

[rphpool]

I had the same concerns as you with the heat and direct sun on my 15 gallon tank. I ended up putting the tank inside of a garbage can with cover and now the tank is considerably cooler

 

[garyengr]

Almost a week has gone by since I first posted my FC and Dosing chart. The following chart is good through today:

The days have heated up and I have lost 2 ppm over about 7 days. I have made the following adjustments in dosing:

(1) At 20:30 on 6/13/2015 I added 53 oz of Chlorine to raise my FC by 2 ppm. This was accomplished by running the pump for two hours and dosing for the first hour. I rechecked at 1:30 on 6/14/2015 and did achieve 2 ppm.

(2) Since my FC drifted down 2 ppm over 7 days, I increased the dosing by about 5 minutes at 10:00 and 14:00 increasing my total dosing to 30 minutes twice a day.

 

[myers2115]

I live in Chandler, AZ and just switched over to TFP method. I am installing a stenner pump next week. Spent around 450 total on the whole thing. Pump 220, 15 gallon drum 115, timer 20, shipping 80, plumbing stuff and electric box and wiring stuff around 50.

I spent around 100 for the total kit on this site plus a little extra on SLAMing the pool plus around 40 for borax last week. My email is [email protected] if you ever want to connect.

 

[myers2115]

Viper,
I live in Chandler, AZ and just switched over to TFP method. I am installing a stenner pump next week. Spent around 450 total on the whole thing. Pump 220, 15 gallon drum 115, timer 20, shipping 80, plumbing stuff and electric box and wiring stuff around 50.

I spent around 100 for the total kit on this site plus a little extra on SLAMing the pool plus around 40 for borax last week. My email is [email protected] if you ever want to connect.

 

[garyengr]

I live in Chandler, AZ and just switched over to TFP method. I am installing a stenner pump next week. Spent around 450 total on the whole thing. Pump 220, 15 gallon drum 115, timer 20, shipping 80, plumbing stuff and electric box and wiring stuff around 50.

I spent around 100 for the total kit on this site plus a little extra on SLAMing the pool plus around 40 for borax last week. My email is [email protected] if you ever want to connect.

Welcome to the TFP method. Hopefully, your install will go smoothly, you'll only have to lug bottles of bleach around to fill up your tank, and you'll be swimming more and maintaining less.


Gary

 

[skimmerswimmer]

Gary - I'm thinking of buying the same controller. Can you tell me if the two on/off buttons shown on your unit each control one output? I was thinking of adding manual switches and outlets on the two outputs, but if these two buttons perform the same function, that would be a waste of space and components. Also, how easy is the programming and how do you like the Stenner model pump you purchased? Would you get the same GPD model or one that is smaller or larger now that you have had some time with it?

 

[garyengr]

Skimmer:

I have an ET-1125CR. This digital timer if set to IND mode, allows each of the on/off buttons to manually control one of the switches and I believe they would operate just like the lever switch on the old intermatic mechanical timers - i.e. allowing either full manual if turned on and off or if manually only turned on, when the off cog time was reached, would trip the switch to off. I have not verified this as I have only used it to turn the pump on and off for short periods of time. My timer is only controlling a 240V Stenner pump so I have the timer set to SIM mode and only one of the on/off buttons are active but controlling both switches.

Regarding programming, it is easy and fairly intuitive. To program you use the mode button to cycle to the timer events and then use the up/down buttons to program on and off events. So in my case, I set up an on event at 10:00, then an off at 10:30, followed by an on at 14:00 and an off at 14:30. Adjusting the dosing is quick and straightforward. Hit the mode button until you are in the time events function and then cycling to the off events and using the up or down buttons to increase or decrease the off time respectively. You can download the instructions from Intermatic ET1100 Series Resources.

So far the pump operation has been flawless. I have the 10GPD pump and I would not change to the 3GPD pump. I run my pump at 1600 RPM which equates to a flow rate of about 40 gpm. The dosing with the 10GPD pump is about 0.9 oz per minute. This results in the FC in the return jets being about 18 ppm above my pool FC which I try to keep at about 8 ppm. Therefore, the total FC in the return jets runs about 26 ppm which is below my FC shock level. Even if it was above the shock level, I still wouldn't worry as it is reduced quickly when mixed with the pool. The advantages I see to the higher rate pump, is shorter pump run times and hopefully pump longevity. The one potential advantage the 3GPD pump would have for me, is reduced variability of the FC levels - something that I am not going to more than superficially try to reduce due to the many other factors which increase the inter day variability. Please note, I have only been using the TFP method for about a month and my opinion could change in the future!! Either pump will work, so pick the one that you feel will meet your needs. And if you change your mind, as other have noted, you can convert the pump to the other variant just by changing the pump tube (I have watched a video on how to do this, but have not actually performed the operation).


Gary

 

[skimmerswimmer]

Thanks Gary! So in my case, there should be no need for a separate switch to turn off the pool pump, since the controller on/off buttons act as switches for both outputs. I'll probably have the electrician set up everything and wire it all. Just need to figure out if I want the plastic or metal outdoor enclosure. I was looking at the two models on Amazon.com and the plastic enclosure photo didn't show two on/off buttons, so I sent an e-mail to Intermatic to verify that both models I'm looking at are identical control-wise.

Also, is the high pressure model pump necessary? I was looking at this one:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/stenner-45mp2-single-head-fixed-output-low-pressure-pump.html

I'm also curious what type of connection the power cable has on it...Nema 6-15?

 

[garyengr]

Thanks Gary! So in my case, there should be no need for a separate switch to turn off the pool pump, since the controller on/off buttons act as switches for both outputs. I'll probably have the electrician set up everything and wire it all. Just need to figure out if I want the plastic or metal outdoor enclosure. I was looking at the two models on Amazon.com and the plastic enclosure photo didn't show two on/off buttons, so I sent an e-mail to Intermatic to verify that both models I'm looking at are identical control-wise.

Also, is the high pressure model pump necessary? I was looking at this one:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/stenner-45mp2-single-head-fixed-output-low-pressure-pump.html

I'm also curious what type of connection the power cable has on it...Nema 6-15?

That's correct, no need for a separate switch to turn on either the pool pump or the stenner given you wire both up to the ET-1125XX.

As long as you buy an ET-1125XX, it will have the two on/off buttons. If XX=CR - this is the indoor/outdoor metal enclosure; XX=C - this is the indoor metal enclosure; and if XX=CPD82 - this is the polycarbonate enclosure w/clear cover. My personal preference is to get the CR but then I'm partial to metal for outdoor use. See image below:

Yes - Nema 6-15 (if you buy the 220V unit).


Gary

 

[garyengr]

Also, is the high pressure model pump necessary? I was looking at this one:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/stenner-45mp2-single-head-fixed-output-low-pressure-pump.html

Believe you can get by without the high pressure since I believe the low pressure is for injecting into systems with pressures < 25psi while the high pressure is for systems up to 100 psi. (unlikely you will have >25 psi in your return line after the filter which is where you should be injecting) The only difference that I know of is the high pressure unit comes with a check valve for injection into the water system. It has the advantage that you can have the stenner pump line disconnected while the pump is running and you won't leak much (I was getting a few drops occasionally.

 

[myers2115]

Proud to say I'm all finished. Turned out good. I went with 45HP10, woods outdoor timer.

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[garyengr]

Proud to say I'm all finished. Turned out good. I went with 45HP10, woods outdoor timer.

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Congrats - now Enjoy!!

 

[myers2115]

115 degrees today in Chandler AZ. Better bet I was enjoying the pool!!


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[garyengr]

9 days have gone by since I posted the last FC and dosing chart. Below find my current chart:

Our temperature in Tucson has climbed and we have been hitting 104-109 highs for the last 9 days with lows of high 70's to low 80's. This has resulted in increased chlorine consumption and thus I have adjusted the dosing 3 times. I probably am also reacting too quickly to my measurements. Measurement variability is likely +/- 0.5 ppm. So readings on two different days can have a difference variability of +/- 1ppm. The following were my adjustments:

(1) End of day on 6/15 I did a one time dose of 40 oz which my measurement indicated an increase of 2ppm (projection would have been 1.5 ppm so within measurement variability). I also increased dosing to 37oz at 10:00 and 14:00 the next day.

(2) End of day on 6/16 I decreased dosing to 30 oz at 10:00 and 14:00 as the FC had rising from 8.5 to 9.5 from beginning of day to end of day.

(3) Let the dosing unchanged until beginning of day on 6/20. From end of day on 6/16 until beginning of day on 6/20, FC had dropped by 3 ppm. Since the FC on beginning of day was 6.5, close to my lower limit of 6, I provided a one shot dose of 27 oz (1 ppm) plus increased the dosing to 44 oz per day (~ 1 ppm / day increase which should compensation for my 3 ppm drop over three days). I have maintained that dosing for three days and will maintain it for at least one more. Based upon the FC drop from 6/16 to 6/20, I over reacted in decreasing the dosing on 6/16.


Gary