First Timer - Taking Over from Pool Service

[AbuElBanat]

Good morning everybody!
I just fired my pool service company for all the reasons you fine folks can already guess. I have a SWG pool about 20k gallons in the warm, wet climate of Georgia. Here are my initial readings from my TF-Pro Salt with Smart Stir kit I just received yesterday:

FC - 10
PH - 8.2
TA - 170
CH - 250
CYA - <30
Salt - 3100
Temp - 82 (outdoor pool, GA)

The CYA test was not 100% clear fluid, but it was not close to obscuring the black dot, so I'm assuming quite significantly under 30. I used the Pool Math app to figure out the individual adjustment needed for each parameter. I am guessing I should start with getting the CYA up to recommended range, which will take alot of pool conditioner, and adding enough muriatic acid to get the pH down to 7.6. This won't be enough to move the TA into range, but because I have aeration from waterfall and kids, I assume I'll need to keep adding MA periodically and eventually TA will get into range.

CH is at the low end of the range. I am thinking I won't adjust this immediately since I have bigger fish to fry. If I succeed with the pH and CYA this weekend, I can start tweaking CH later, but there might be some interactions.

If any of this seems misguided, or I am missing something important, please let me know!

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP.
You are the right track.
Focus on CYA first and you can lower pH at same time.
With the CYA - do it in stages so you do not overshoot. Target 50 first, then after several days test and see where you are at. Then adjust again.
TA will come down over time as per your plan to lower pH and then aerate.
Good Luck

 

[PoolStored]

I am guessing I should start with getting the CYA up to recommended range, which will take alot of pool conditioner,

Get pool math...will help you calculate what you need to add. Link-->PoolMath
I would use stabilizer (granular) instead of conditioner (liquid) cheaper and less problematic.

and adding enough muriatic acid to get the pH down to 7.6.

Do it in .4 increments...

This won't be enough to move the TA into range, but because I have aeration from waterfall and kids, I assume I'll need to keep adding MA periodically and eventually TA will get into range.

Yep, just manage pH, TA will take care of itself

CH is at the low end of the range. I am thinking I won't adjust this immediately since I have bigger fish to fry. If I succeed with the pH and CYA this weekend, I can start tweaking CH later, but there might be some interactions.

Check the CH of your fill water. If it is high, I would not add more, fill water will bring it up over time.

If any of this seems misguided, or I am missing something important, please let me know!

Good Job...and Welcome to TFP!!!

 

[AbuElBanat]

Check the CH of your fill water. If it is high, I would not add more, fill water will bring it up over time.

Thanks for the suggestion. Just did this, my fill water is also CH 250. Concrete / pebble tec pool. Maybe I should consider doing something to move this higher, but I will probably take a week to focus on the pH and CYA first.

 

[PoolStored]

Thanks for the suggestion. Just did this, my fill water is also CH 250. Concrete / pebble tec pool. Maybe I should consider doing something to move this higher, but I will probably take a week to focus on the pH and CYA first.

I'd leave it alone. With evaporation and fill of 250, it will climb on its own.

 

[AbuElBanat]

Day 1 Update:
Bought 2 gallons of CYA and 2 gallons of MA at pool store. Will use solid conditioner down the road, but wanted the quick response this time, and since I needed to add at least two whole gallons not worried about the inconsistency. Added 2 gallons of CYA immediately. Added a quart of MA at a time, waited 2 hours and then repeated pH test. About 3 quarts got me to 7.6 pH or so (implying about 8.5 initial pH or so based on my pool volume and poolmath app). I added the fourth quart of MA this morning to make it a full gallon -- the goal is to get down to 7.2 pH or so, to start dealing with my 170 TA (repeated that measurement this morning, it is unchanged so far).

Ran the pool vacuum robot a couple of extra times. It collected alot of grey-ish sediment the first time, nearly filling the cartridge. About half as much the second time, very little the third time. Makes me wonder whether the pool service company was even running the robot as they were supposed to. I don't know what the sediment was, or if it is relevant to diagnosing the issue below.

My other issue is some coloration in the water, it has a slightly greenish/turquoise tint despite being very clear. I have a Pebble tech surface in the water, and the appearance of each step deeper into the pool gets slightly more colored, so it is clearly an issue with water color rather than surface stain. This is with 8 FC / 0 CC / <30 CYA, so I do not suspect any algae. Searching through threads here leads me to suspect iron, particularly because I replenish my pool with well water, and my understanding is the high FC / high pH my pool has been running would maybe exacerbate an iron issue. I would welcome any thoughts on this topic.

It also seems from past threads that this forum considers pool store metals tests to be very unreliable. Other metals tests are silly expensive. So I have simply ordered some Polyfill and hairnets from Amazon, and will stuff them in the filter basket when they arrive tomorrow. My understanding is that if there is iron causing this greenish tint to the water, the Polyfill should trap some of it. Even aside from helping if it is iron, this is also basically a $25 iron test unless I am missing something, which seems like a good deal on its own.

 

[generessler]

Consider listing your equipment in the signature block as many here do. It helps the experts give answers without an extra round of questions.

It's extremely good and maybe a bit suspicious that your SWG is able to keep FC at 10ppm in 20 kgal with such low CYA in the Georgia sun. I'm guessing your pool is shaded and/or the cell is working very hard. Getting CYA to the 60-80 range will really help with the latter. As others have said, creep up on it, as overshooting would mean drain and refill.

 

[AbuElBanat]

Consider listing your equipment in the signature block as many here do. It helps the experts give answers without an extra round of questions.

It's extremely good and maybe a bit suspicious that your SWG is able to keep FC at 10ppm in 20 kgal with such low CYA in the Georgia sun. I'm guessing your pool is shaded and/or the cell is working very hard. Getting CYA to the 60-80 range will really help with the latter. As others have said, creep up on it, as overshooting would mean drain and refill.

Thanks Gene. Equipment listed now.

Ex-Pool-Service had my SWG dialed to 100% constantly; it is part of what made me decide I had to learn all this stuff and do it myself. My pool is in about 75% sun over the course of a spring day, closer to 100% in the summer. I have dialed the SWG back to 70% -- PoolMath says it is a 1.47/24h SWG, so this will have me at about 0.5g/day, using the pump for 12 hours. This is a little light for a 20k gallon pool probably, especially since the 2 gal of CYA was less than the 3gal recommended by PoolMath, since I took the advice to try and undershoot.

 

[generessler]

Thanks Gene. Equipment listed now.

Ex-Pool-Service had my SWG dialed to 100% constantly; it is part of what made me decide I had to learn all this stuff and do it myself. My pool is in about 75% sun over the course of a spring day, closer to 100% in the summer. I have dialed the SWG back to 70% -- PoolMath says it is a 1.47/24h SWG, so this will have me at about 0.5g/day, using the pump for 12 hours. This is a little light for a 20k gallon pool probably, especially since the 2 gal of CYA was less than the 3gal recommended by PoolMath, since I took the advice to try and undershoot.

Yeah...pool professionals sometimes aren't. Sorry you went through that.

A good thing to keep in your head is that the T-15 generates 8.7 ppm for your pool in 24 hours at 100%. For 12 hours at 70%, just pro rate that: 12/24 * 0.7 * 8.7 = 3 ppm. People here see summer daily loss rates of about 1 to 4 ppm depending on conditions, so you're definitely in the ballpark. Just test FC/CC every day for while to learn the new use pattern and get everything re-adjusted.

The SWG has a fixed number of hours of operation before it fails. The exotic metal coating on the internal plates deteriorates with use. So minimizing hours and % saves $. CYA is cheaper than cell replacement.

 

[AbuElBanat]

Day 2 update: pH back up to 7.7-7.8, so up .4 or .5 from the low point yesterday! I was expecting some increase because of the waterfall, SWG, and the very high TA of the pool, but this is quite a bit. Tested the TA too, remarkably still at 170. I was disappointed not to even put a dent in the TA. Some online sources indicate that I will need to put roughly 4 gallons of MA into the pool cumulatively before my TA gets to my target of 70, but the first full gallon seems to have made virtually zero impact. Added 2 quarts MA today, targeting 7.2 pH, will see what tomorrow brings.

 

[HermanTX]

TA will come down slowly. It is just a process that occurs over time as you do not want to tank the pH

 

[Jimrahbe]

Abu,

Reducing TA is not a one time shot, it is a process..

It takes me about two days of testing and adding acid about every two hours with constant aeration to get my TA down to about 50ppm.

You can do this process if your really, really want to quickly reduce your TA, but you can also just add acid and try to keep your pH at 7.6 to 7.8 and over a long period of time the TA will eventually come down.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[AbuElBanat]

Thanks y'all. I am going to try to target 7.2 to 7.4 pH when I make adjustments, knowing that it will increase fairly aggressively between adjustments, and adjust it again when it gets back up to 7.8-8.0.

 

[Deb04]

Is your FC still at 10? A FC of 10 or higher can make pH test artificially high. If it is still that high, let it float down to maybe 7 or 8 and retest to ensure your pH is what you think it is.

 

[AbuElBanat]

Is your FC still at 10? A FC of 10 or higher can make pH test artificially high. If it is still that high, let it float down to maybe 7 or 8 and retest to ensure your pH is what you think it is.

Day 3 Update:
FC went down to 8, but then came back up again, despite me cutting the SWG down from 100% to 70%. I assume this is because I added CYA, which would reduce my FC loss rate even though CYA is still registering just below 30. So I have turned the SWG off for the moment until we get back to target levels, at which point I will try 30-40%. But the pH did register high when at 8 FC too.

I stuffed Polyfill in hairnets into my filter basket this morning, and turned off the pool bottom drain to make sure water filters through. At lunch today, 6 hours into this method, no obvious effect in pool color and no obvious discoloration of the Polyfill. Yet, the clear green water with FC ~10, the fact that fill water is from well, orange discoloration on plastic parts such as the filter basket, and a couple orangeish stains at the bottom of the pool (where my fill hose typically sits and next to the pool bottom drain) still seems to strongly suggest this. Maybe I need more patience here.

 

[AbuElBanat]

Day 4 Update:
FC 9.5
CC 0.5
pH 7.8

Added 2 quarts of MA to continue fighting the pH rise from waterfall and very high TA. Checked Polyfill after 12 straight hours; zero brown color on Polyfill, no change in pool appearance. Pool store water test negative for metals but I don't trust it. I can clearly see the pebbles on the bottom through 5 feet of water in the deepest part of the pool, but the water has a meaningful tint. Ordered some Jack's Magic purple stuff. I am hoping that some combination of lower FC and the sequestrant will clear up the tint, since the Polyfill has been totally ineffective.

 

[AbuElBanat]

FC 7.5, CC 0.5, pH 7.5, TA 160, CH 250, CYA 50, Salt 3000.

5 days ago, I fired my pool guy, got my test kit, and found my pool with FC, pH, and TA all through the roof, zero CYA, and my SWG running at 100% for 12 hours a day. I have been chipping away at the problems and aside from TA, my test levels are in a much happier place, with work needed over time on the TA.

The one problem left is tint in the water and some mild staining near the floor drain (pictured). I fill the pool with well water, and I had a 20 year old gas heater fail over the winter, replacing it about a month ago. The color has been around longer than that, but I wasn't sure there was any issue with it since the water has always been clear, and I naively trusted my pool company.

Despite a pool store test with zero iron/copper, my first suspect was iron. I ran the pump for 12 hours with polyfill stuffing my skimmer, no effect on the pool and no discoloration in the polyfill. Tonight, I followed that up with some Jacks' purple stuff which should have an impact if the culprit is copper or other heavy metal. Four hours later, zero change, and I am scratching my head.

Is there another likely cause of this stain / water tint? Maybe the picture attached is helpful for diagnosis? Or does the sequestrant perhaps just take much longer to work?

 

[mknauss]

Have you tried vitamin C tablets in a thin sock? Crush them a bit and set it on a stained area.

 

[AbuElBanat]

Will give that a shot this weekend; thanks for the suggestion.

 

[AbuElBanat]

Have you tried vitamin C tablets in a thin sock? Crush them a bit and set it on a stained area.

Bought some and rubbed them on a stained white plastic return, seemed to do the trick quite easily. Rubbing with just a brush or fingers was not effective. So I guess it is iron after all?? I have very limited areas with surface stain on them, I really just want to figure out how to remove the tint from the water.