First time pool owner

[katiecp]

Hi there! We have recently moved in to a house with a salt water pool. I have done a ton of research and am really trying to get comfortable owning all of the maintenance needs of our pool but definitely a steeper learning curve for me. I have a few questions I was hoping to get some advice on as I have seen these threads be really great resources.

• We recently took apart our Hayward DE filter and replaced all of the 8 grids (as they basically fell apart when we took them out they were so caked with brown nasty stuff). When we did this I saw that our pressure went from a regular ~35 PSI down to 19 so I thought that was a big win. I put the recommended 6.5 lbs of DE powder also in right after cleaning. Unfortunately, the next day I noticed a decent amount of DE at bottom of pool and my pressure was already reading ~26 PSI.
  • Question #1: Did I do something wrong?
• Since then we have been dealing with a lot of algae (we are in NJ and its been unseasonably warm with a good amount of rain.) I lean on a local pool store to help with chemical balancing and it feels like I am just constantly adjusting my ph (down) and adding a ton of shock and algaecide. Typically psi is reading around 28-30 now as well. I do quick backwashes (1x backwash, 1x rinse, then back to filter... which I have recently read is not a great approach and should be more like 3x of each and decreasing time with each) and have not added anymore DE since I figured I overdid it after cleaning out the filter. Also to note, I VERY stupidly did not realize that the cover that slides/pivots over and off the hole at the bottom of the skimmers (both shallow and deep) was covered for I am not sure how long. I realize this was extremely stupid and have no idea how I did not notice. Both have been now uncovered for about 24 hours with filter running.
  • Question #2: Since we have had such a large amount of algae should we actually open the filter back off and hose down the grids? Or should we just add more DE after next backwash?
  • Question #3: What does the typical amount of chemical treatment look like?
• I have not adjusted our salt cell throughout this process and it has been on 60%
  • Question #4: Any adjustments needed there? When do you adjust the salt cell?
• The pump filter basket (?) (near the pump, clear top that you can see the water sorta bubbling when filter on) I have never opened. Is this something that needs to be cleaned?
• We have 2 filters and 2 drains in the pool (yes, people have questioned why we have a shallow and deep end drain, beats me). The shallow filter skimmer does not seem to have much of any suction.
  • Question #5: Is there something I can do to investigate/remedy this?
• Current State:
  • Filter is running
  • Tested water last night and all levels were good outside of free chlorine (0.07), total chlorine (0.07), and pH (8.1)
  • Small amount of algae when I brush so yesterday and this morning I have brushed sides and bottom as well as ran vacuum
  • Added 5lb pH down last night and followed with 4lb of shock 2 hours later
  • I plan to add algaecide today after vacuuming is done as well as to backwash and rinse (3x) each then run filter for another 24 hours
    • Question #6: Would it be best to open filter and hose down grids? Just add DE after backwashing and rinsing?

Pool facts:
28k gallons
salt
hayward DE filter

Thank you very much in advance to anyone who can help me out with some of these questions!

 

[Panzer]

Welcome.
I'm sure others will be along shortly to help. But for now...
Get yourself a good test kit (TF-100 or Taylor 2006C). Pool stores will try & sell you all kinds of stuff that in all honesty will complicate getting your chemistry straight as well as lighten your wallet. Read the Pool School section here. I'd avoid the algaecide & use liquid bleach (liquid chlorine).

Numbers we're going to look at closest for now will be: Free Chlorine (FC), Combined Chloramines (CC), Total Alkalinity (TA), Stabilizer (CYA) and pH. You'll need a salt test as well

If you're not already using a skimmer sock you may want to (especially with high amounts of algae). This will maximize the time between filter cleanouts/backwashing.

Your pump strainer basket should be cleaned & clear. You shouldn't have air in the pump strainer basket. Once you've bled the air out of there, see if it continues to come back. If it does, you'll need to check for leaks in you piping. Getting air into your system will cause your pH to rise, among other issues.

If you didn't run the filter to waste after refilling the DE, it's not uncommon to get some DE back into the pool. You can vacuum this up and you should be OK from now on. Just remember next time you do a DE change out.
The reason the pressure jumped is because you're actually measuring backpressure on the filter. When you added DE it coated the grids (as it should) increasing the backpressure on the pump. That is your new "clean starting pressure"... monitor how much the pressure increases from that point to determine when DE needs replacing/backwashed. If it rises 7-10psi you should backwash/clean the filter.

For now, continue running the pump & brushing. You're going to need adjust your FC level based on the stabilizer level. I'm not a Salt Water user but, I'm sure some of the others will be along shortly that can give you more insight in that regard.
Best of luck & don't panic... the folks here are great.

 

[katiecp]

Welcome.
I'm sure others will be along shortly to help. But for now...
Get yourself a good test kit (TF-100 or Taylor 2006C). Pool stores will try & sell you all kinds of stuff that in all honesty will complicate getting your chemistry straight as well as lighten your wallet. Read the Pool School section here. I'd avoid the algaecide & use liquid bleach (liquid chlorine).

Numbers we're going to look at closest for now will be: Free Chlorine (FC), Combined Chloramines (CC), Total Alkalinity (TA), Stabilizer (CYA) and pH. You'll need a salt test as well

If you're not already using a skimmer sock you may want to (especially with high amounts of algae). This will maximize the time between filter cleanouts/backwashing.

Your pump strainer basket should be cleaned & clear. You shouldn't have air in the pump strainer basket. Once you've bled the air out of there, see if it continues to come back. If it does, you'll need to check for leaks in you piping. Getting air into your system will cause your pH to rise, among other issues.

If you didn't run the filter to waste after refilling the DE, it's not uncommon to get some DE back into the pool. You can vacuum this up and you should be OK from now on. Just remember next time you do a DE change out.
The reason the pressure jumped is because you're actually measuring backpressure on the filter. When you added DE it coated the grids (as it should) increasing the backpressure on the pump. That is your new "clean starting pressure"... monitor how much the pressure increases from that point to determine when DE needs replacing/backwashed. If it rises 7-10psi you should backwash/clean the filter.

For now, continue running the pump & brushing. You're going to need adjust your FC level based on the stabilizer level. I'm not a Salt Water user but, I'm sure some of the others will be along shortly that can give you more insight in that regard.
Best of luck & don't panic... the folks here are great.

Thank you for your response! I have liquid chlorinator is that the same as liquid chlorine? I haven't put any algaecide in yet so wondering if I should do that instead. Additionally, from what you gathered in my long winded post, would you suggest that I open up the filter and hose it down? I understand the sitting pressure note but from what I have read, sitting pressure of 29 seems high , no? Thanks again!

 

[Panzer]

You have a liquid chlorinator & SWG??
Liquid Chlorine (bleach) is usually sold in pool stores with strength around 10-12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite. That's what I'd suggest using until things get close & avoid the algaecide. I'd personally add it directly to the pool, in front of the return.

If your pressure is at 29 psi (and that's high based on your past experience) then I'd go ahead and clean-out the DE filter (start fresh). If you have a LOT of fine algae, you may have started to blind-off the grids. Just remember when you add the fresh DE to filter to waste at first to avoid sending the DE in through the pool return. Additionally, if you put a skimmer sock (nylon legging) into the skimmer and frequently check it... it should catch much of the algae and keep the filter from blinding-off as frequently. (Plus they're much easier to change out than a filter).

You're going to want your FC at least 4ppm (more than likely higher) based on your CYA (stabilizer) and your Salt level. You can use liquid chlorine to get your algae issue under control and then work with others to get your SWG dialed in. Look at the recommended levels section in Pool Math. You'll want to be SLAMming level for your pool if you're dealing with an algae issue.

You'll find once you get a reliable test kit, that the results are often far different than what the pool store numbers are reported as. Thus the importance of getting a good test kit ASAP.
With a good test kit and Pool Math you won't have to guess at what you're levels are or how much to add.

Pictures of the pool water also are helpful.
Respectfully,

 

[katiecp]

You have a liquid chlorinator & SWG??
Liquid Chlorine (bleach) is usually sold in pool stores with strength around 10-12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite. That's what I'd suggest using until things get close & avoid the algaecide. I'd personally add it directly to the pool, in front of the return.

If your pressure is at 29 psi (and that's high based on your past experience) then I'd go ahead and clean-out the DE filter (start fresh). If you have a LOT of fine algae, you may have started to blind-off the grids. Just remember when you add the fresh DE to filter to waste at first to avoid sending the DE in through the pool return. Additionally, if you put a skimmer sock (nylon legging) into the skimmer and frequently check it... it should catch much of the algae and keep the filter from blinding-off as frequently. (Plus they're much easier to change out than a filter).

You're going to want your FC at least 4ppm (more than likely higher) based on your CYA (stabilizer) and your Salt level. You can use liquid chlorine to get your algae issue under control and then work with others to get your SWG dialed in. Look at the recommended levels section in Pool Math. You'll want to be SLAMming level for your pool if you're dealing with an algae issue.

You'll find once you get a reliable test kit, that the results are often far different than what the pool store numbers are reported as. Thus the importance of getting a good test kit ASAP.
With a good test kit and Pool Math you won't have to guess at what you're levels are or how much to add.

Pictures of the pool water also are helpful.
Respectfully,

Cant thank you enough for all of this information. As I do not think that the algae is too severe at this moment I will hold on adding any algaecide and instead look to get test kit ASAP. If I am not able to get for about 1 week (looking that way based on shipping times) what would you recommend to keep things from getting out of control? I hate to keep opening up the filter and losing water.

I have the Pool Essentials Chlorinating Liquid and cannot tell if it has SWG but found a thread to read about that. Will also get a skimmer sock on ASAP as well so once we have the clean filter and new DE we can start fresh. Quite a learning process but (I think) I am starting to get it Attaching photos of water here as well as recent water test though sounds like I may have gotten different numbers through other means.

 

[Panzer]

No worries. Your pool doesn't look bad at all.

Based on your readings (if accurate) it's not too far off. The Pool Essentials Chlorinating Liquid looks to be 10% Sodium Hypochlorite. I'd look to get your FC to at least 12 ppm until it begins to clear.
I'd try adding 1 gal of the liquid chlorine directly to the pool and let the pump run.

Your pH is just a tad high but, nothing to fret over immediately. Some Muriatic Acid (available at hardware store, Menards, etc) will work just fine to bring it down.

Based on what I see from the others numbers things are ok. I'll see if I can get one of the mods more knowledgeable about Salt water pools than I, to chime in.

As to the filter. You really shouldn't have to open it that often. Once you've got your "clean filter pressure" known. You shouldn't have to clean/backwash until the pressure rises 7-10 psi above that. (We're talking maybe once or twice a season based on my experience). The skimmer sock will help trap fine particles. You can usually reuse each one a few times by rinsing it out.

Your main need right now is keeping enough free chlorine in the pool to kill the algae. Brush and vacuum (you may want to do this to waste) to avoid plugging the filter at least the next couple times.
I know you don't want to change out water but, you're on the high end of the acceptable range with your CYA (if pool store is accurate... which they are notoriously off with CYA readings), if that's the case some small water draining & refilling will help that.

Let me see if I can get someone a bit more knowledgeable with SWG to respond & we can get you straightened out ASAP.
Respectfully

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
Panzer has give you some great guidance.
For now, there is little to do until you get a test kit. I suggest the TF-100 or Taylor K2006C. A proper test kit is needed to get the accurate water chemistry results needed to follow the TFP protocols.

With a DE filter, if you have a MPV, you are best to move it to recirculate and add 5ppm FC worth of liguid chlorine each evening with the pump running. A DE filter will just plug off quickly with algae. Until you have the tools to follow the SLAM Process you are in a holding pattern.
When you get your test kit, post up the results of your test and we can provide guidance from there.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

 

[katiecp]

Welcome to the forum!
Panzer has give you some great guidance.
For now, there is little to do until you get a test kit. I suggest the TF-100 or Taylor K2006C. A proper test kit is needed to get the accurate water chemistry results needed to follow the TFP protocols.

With a DE filter, if you have a MPV, you are best to move it to recirculate and add 5ppm FC worth of liguid chlorine each evening with the pump running. A DE filter will just plug off quickly with algae. Until you have the tools to follow the SLAM Process you are in a holding pattern.
When you get your test kit, post up the results of your test and we can provide guidance from there.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

Hi there! Thank you for your response. My kit is not due for arrival until Friday. Is there a way to remedy a bit in the meantime? Algae just seems to be picking up steam quickly. I was thinking that today we would open up filter, hose down grids, add fresh DE (with system on waste at first for a few seconds) then brush and vacuum ahead of adding some (gallon?) of the Pool Essentials Chlorinating Liquid at dusk. Curious to hear your thoughts? Thank you very much in advance.

Also - what is an MVP?

 

[mknauss]

Is there a way to remedy a bit in the meantime?

add 5ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine each evening with the pump running.

I was thinking that today we would open up filter, hose down grids, add fresh DE (with system on waste at first for a few seconds) then brush and vacuum

You can certainly do that, but filtering will not kill the algae. Chlorine will. And until you know your water chemistry, you are shooting in the dark.

An MPV is a the valve you use to control what the water does at your filter. Do you have one?

 

[katiecp]

You can certainly do that, but filtering will not kill the algae. Chlorine will. And until you know your water chemistry, you are shooting in the dark.

An MPV is a the valve you use to control what the water does at your filter. Do you have one?

Ah yes, we have that valve i typically have it on filter. I have never used recirculate before. Though I know the pool store is not recommended for testing I did just run over there as it is my only resource for next few days.

FC: 0.08
TC: 0.1
Combined Chlorine: 0.02
pH:7.6
hardness:271ppm
alk.:104ppm
CA:80ppm
copper: 0
iron:0.1
phosphate: 56ppb
salt: 3003

Shockingly, its all in the "recommended" range that they have. We just also opened filter and hosed it down until its clean (was covered with algae before, attached image). We got filter back full but have not added DE yet as I was going to wait until sun goes down so that I can add chlorine at the same time - so system is off, not sure if that is the best call?

Pool shop told me to shock with 6lbs though I need to adjust this over to liquid chlorine as thats what I have on hand. So I will add DE then add liquid chlorine as soon as sun is off pool for the day. Also, I don't believe it needs adjusting but SWG is set to 60%. Any feedback is extremely appreciated. I am so thankful for finding this resource!

 

[mknauss]

Follow the pool store or TFP -- you make the choice.

 

[katiecp]

Follow the pool store or TFP -- you make the choice.

Yes, I am trying to switch over to following TFP. As stated I do not have test kit so doing best I can until that arrives this week. I appreciate the advice thus far but again am unable to complete the SLAM process properly until I have test kit.

 

[mknauss]

but again am unable to complete the SLAM process properly until I have test kit.

I know. So add 5 ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine each evening with the pump on. Most likely best to put MPV on recirculate so you do not fight the algae until you kill it with the SLAM Process

 

[Vickery]

Welcome to TFP! Adding enough CL will keep the algae in check, doing the other stuff simply adds to your costs and aggravation. I know that it seems like you HAVE TO DO SOMETHING! But it just adds to your frustration. Keep the bugs at bay and when you get your test kit you will have accurate results to work with. After all, your pool is in "recommended pool store range." That should tell you just how trustworthy they are! Or aren't.

 

[katiecp]

Hello again, test kit arrived last night so I just completed my first test!! I wanted to share my numbers and what I believe to be next steps. Any recommendations/corrections/confirmation is greatly appreciated!

Pool size 28K gallons
Salt water pool with SWG
Gunite, so I think then its fiberglass?

FC:
- Now: 0 (when completing test, sample BARELY turned pink, just a slightly cloudy clear)
- Target: 6 as I am salt water pull so used the SWG tab of chlorine/cya chart
Treatment: 2.2 jugs @ 96oz of chlorinating liquid (which I typically buy Pool Essential Chlorinating Liquid, 10%)
pH:
- Now: 7.8
- Target: 7.5
Treatment: ~17oz of Clorox pH down (which is what I have on hand, will switch to muriatic acid once I run out). Calculation is based on the fact that its 7.8 currently which then they call for 6 oz per 10,000 gallons with my pool being 28K gallons
TA:
- Now: 100
- Target: 100
Treatment: None
CH:
- Now: 225
- Target: 260
Treatment: Not sure how to read this treatment for this?
CYA:
- Now: 80
- Target: 40 (With the CYA/FC chart do you sort of disregard this target? - PoolMath says to replace 50% of water)
Treatment: Handled through FC?
Salt
- Not tested, do I need separate test for this? SWG reads "Good" as I don't have exact # reader.
Borate
- I don't think I tested for this either with the kits
Treatment: None
Temp
- ~75
CSI
- Did not test for?

Follow-up questions:
- As I have salt water pool with SWG does that then mean my "primary source of chlorine" is SWG though I use liquid chlorine when treating?
- When would best time be to add chemicals? My understanding is I can lower pH anytime but should not add liquid chlorine until dusk.

 

[mknauss]

Gunite, so I think then its fiberglass?

Plaster.

 

[mknauss]

Add chlorine.
Select SWG for chlorine source. You use the SWG tab of the FC/CYA chart. Your target FC is 6-8.

 

[katiecp]

Add chlorine.
Select SWG for chlorine source. You use the SWG tab of the FC/CYA chart. Your target FC is 6-8.

thanks, is it counterproductive to add chlorine in the morning? or since mine is so low should i just add as soon as pH lowers? thanks!

 

[mknauss]

Add chlorine now! Your current level of FC is inviting algae to the party.