FIRST TIME BUILD in NJ– looking for advice and input please!

Jrzigirl

Member
Feb 29, 2020
11
New Jersey
Pool will be salt water, rectangle, 20’ x 50’, 3 ½ to 5 ½ ft, with sun shelf. We are getting a built-in auto cover as this is not our primary home and we are interested in less cleaning, stable chemistry, holding heat and less evaporation. The price includes straight edge bluestone coping, a 400K Natural gas heater and swim out bench. No other frills.

Builder 1 builds a standard shockrete pool with quartz finish. Builder 2 builds a “hybrid” pool they call “aquakrete”. Basically, shockrete walls, concrete and vermiculite floor, and 27 ml vinyl liner. Both companies are reputable, well rated, family owned, 50+ years in business.

Builder 1 supplies Jandy equipment: VS 460 sq. ft. cartridge filter, 3 Jandy LV LED color lights, Meyco mesh winter cover, Polaris TR-28P cleaner w/booster pump, Jandy JXi 400K NG heater, autofill system, 20x10 sunshelf 14” deep, 2 bubblers on shelf, Jandy Fusion soft salt system, Jandy Aqualink PDA P4 automated control, 2 skimmers, 4 returns, 2” piping, 2 main drains, Estes premium quartz finish, Pennco remote auto cover, swim out bench. 150 ft. electric line, 40 ft gas line. (Both will be adequate.) Permits and engineering included. They included 850 sq ft of brushed concrete for $7200 but are willing to work with a contractor of our choice that would cost half.

Builder 2 uses Hayward: VS cartridge filter, 3 Hayward white LED lights, solid winter cover with pump, Dolphin i30 vacuum with caddy and Bluetooth, 400K heater, 20 x 7 sunshelf with 2 lighted bubblers, 2 shelf lights, Hayward Omnilogic Cellphone Control with 40K salt system. 2 skimmers, 4 returns, 2” piping, upgraded 27ml all over texture Garrett liner, Pennco remote auto cover, resin handrail, swim out bench. 100ft. electric and 50 ft gas line. Permits are extra. Engineering included. They include 3’ brushed concrete and will NOT work with outside contractor. 3 yrs parts and labor warranty on Hayward equipment.

GRAND TOTAL for each $130,000!! Have no idea how to choose?!? My husband is leaning towards the liner for ease of chemistry and less cost and future maintenance to change liner vs. replaster. I am aware that concrete is a preferrable long term investment, but both pools are actually concrete. Most of our neighbors have liners. Appreciate your thoughts and experience with the equipment, advice etc. Thanks!! Leslie in NJ
 
Builder 1 supplies Jandy equipment: VS 460 sq. ft. cartridge filter, 3 Jandy LV LED color lights, Meyco mesh winter cover, Polaris TR-28P cleaner w/booster pump, Jandy JXi 400K NG heater, autofill system, 20x10 sunshelf 14” deep, 2 bubblers on shelf, Jandy Fusion soft salt system, Jandy Aqualink PDA P4 automated control, 2 skimmers, 4 returns, 2” piping, 2 main drains, Estes premium quartz finish,
You do not need the Fusion type of saltwater chlorine generator (SWCG), Jandy makes a standalone SWCG called AquaPure 1400. If you have to purchase the Fusion, then do not use the canister as that contains metals which can be harmful to pool longer term.
Also, do not get the AquaLink PDA automation. That is old technology. Request the iAquaLink automation system which has the 3.0 antenna. That allows you to access the control of your system via your PC or via an app. You do not need a PDA (which stands for Pool Digital Assistant). PDA's were used 10+ years ago as the first step to wireless controls. Now everything is better via PC or phone app access.
 
You do not need the Fusion type of saltwater chlorine generator (SWCG), Jandy makes a standalone SWCG called AquaPure 1400. If you have to purchase the Fusion, then do not use the canister as that contains metals which can be harmful to pool longer term.
Also, do not get the AquaLink PDA automation. That is old technology. Request the iAquaLink automation system which has the 3.0 antenna. That allows you to access the control of your system via your PC or via an app. You do not need a PDA (which stands for Pool Digital Assistant). PDA's were used 10+ years ago as the first step to wireless controls. Now everything is better via PC or phone app access.
Thank you so much for this feedback and info. I like this builder but from what you're saying, they are a generation behind. I understand that even the polaris is old technology. Do you have any thoughts on the Hayward package? Ty!
 
Builder 1 builds a standard shockrete pool with quartz finish. Builder 2 builds a “hybrid” pool they call “aquakrete”. Basically, shockrete walls, concrete and vermiculite floor, and 27 ml vinyl liner. Both companies are reputable, well rated, family owned, 50+ years in business.

Do you have dogs?

@jimmythegreek what are your thoughts on an aquacrete pool?

Builder 1 supplies Jandy equipment: VS 460 sq. ft. cartridge filter, 3 Jandy LV LED color lights, Meyco mesh winter cover, Polaris TR-28P cleaner w/booster pump, Jandy JXi 400K NG heater, autofill system, 20x10 sunshelf 14” deep, 2 bubblers on shelf, Jandy Fusion soft salt system, Jandy Aqualink PDA P4 automated control, 2 skimmers, 4 returns, 2” piping, 2 main drains, Estes premium quartz finish, Pennco remote auto cover, swim out bench. 150 ft. electric line, 40 ft gas line. (Both will be adequate.) Permits and engineering included. They included 850 sq ft of brushed concrete for $7200 but are willing to work with a contractor of our choice that would cost half.

The only pressure side cleaner with a booster pump that I would get is the Polaris Quattro Sport. Either get that or delete the pressure cleaner and get a Dolphin robot cleaner like the other builder is quoting.


What specific model pump?

As Herman said you don't want the Aqualink PDA. The Fusion soft is OK if you don't install the mineral cartridge.


Builder 2 uses Hayward: VS cartridge filter, 3 Hayward white LED lights, solid winter cover with pump, Dolphin i30 vacuum with caddy and Bluetooth, 400K heater, 20 x 7 sunshelf with 2 lighted bubblers, 2 shelf lights, Hayward Omnilogic Cellphone Control with 40K salt system. 2 skimmers, 4 returns, 2” piping, upgraded 27ml all over texture Garrett liner, Pennco remote auto cover, resin handrail, swim out bench. 100ft. electric and 50 ft gas line. Permits are extra. Engineering included. They include 3’ brushed concrete and will NOT work with outside contractor. 3 yrs parts and labor warranty on Hayward equipment.

What model VS pump?

Ask about getting the OmniPL rather then the OmniLogic. It is a newer system with an improved UI.




GRAND TOTAL for each $130,000!! Have no idea how to choose?!? My husband is leaning towards the liner for ease of chemistry and less cost and future maintenance to change liner vs. replaster. I am aware that concrete is a preferrable long term investment, but both pools are actually concrete.

For the same money I would take a gunite/plaster pool every time. Liner pools have become popular because generally they cost less to build. You can't say they are the same because they both are concrete. That's like saying they are the same since they both use PVC pipe.

The fact is a liner is more fragile then plaster and will not last as long as well maintained plaster.

There is no difference in "ease of chemistry" between a plaster pool or a liner pool. I don't know where you think a liner pool will be less cost or maintenance over a 10 to 20 year period then a plaster pool.
 
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I like this builder but from what you're saying, they are a generation behind. I understand that even the polaris is old technology.
You have to remember 2 things with PB, they are trying to be low cost because they know homeowners are getting multiple bids. So, he might have quoted the PDA system because it may be lower cost to him. Just an assumption. If you like him, ask him to quote the iAquaLink. Now the second thing is that there is huge demand for all types of pool equipment, so he may be trying to use up his inventory or he cannot get reliable cost on an iAquaLink. By asking for the iAquaLink, you may get a feel about his issues.

As pointed out by Allen, Polaris has more modern pressure side cleaners such as the Quattro Sport. I agree, that your next best option would be an electric driven robot. You would need to have a GFCI outlet nearby (within code). Some people leave a robot in the pool all the time and others remove them. The only downside to leaving it in fulltime is that you have the cord across your deck or lawn.
 
A lot of builds are taking forever, lol. You may want to ask them what a realistic start date is and how long will the build be and if you haven't already, look up online reviews and see if the most recent ones say the builds are taking longer than they said they would. Also, make sure you do not agree to a payment schedule that is too front loaded...and certainly don't make last payment before they are done. How much are permits that Builder #2 isn't including them...and do you need to get the permits? 3 1/2 feet is pretty shallow so if you're still thinking about depth you might ask how much it is to go deeper.
 
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Do you have dogs?

@jimmythegreek what are your thoughts on an aquacrete pool?



The only pressure side cleaner with a booster pump that I would get is the Polaris Quattro Sport. Either get that or delete the pressure cleaner and get a Dolphin robot cleaner like the other builder is quoting.


What specific model pump?

As Herman said you don't want the Aqualink PDA. The Fusion soft is OK if you don't install the mineral cartridge.




What model VS pump?

Ask about getting the OmniPL rather then the OmniLogic. It is a newer system with an improved UI.






For the same money I would take a gunite/plaster pool every time. Liner pools have become popular because generally they cost less to build. You can't say they are the same because they both are concrete. That's like saying they are the same since they both use PVC pipe.

The fact is a liner is more fragile then plaster and will not last as long as well maintained plaster.

There is no difference in "ease of chemistry" between a plaster pool or a liner pool. I don't know where you think a liner pool will be less cost or maintenance over a 10 to 20 year period then a plaster pool.
Thank you so much for pointing out all these details! If I didn't have this forum, I would be blind to all these issues.
The answers are:
1. No dogs
2. I will inquire about the Polaris Quattro
3. Builder 2 did not supply me with a Hayward pump model. Quote just says upgraded VS pump.
4. Will inquire about OmniPL
5. We have read that vinyl was easier to maintain but obviously, opinions vary on that! We are concerned about brushing the plaster in the fall and the alkalinity issue. But I am aware that if we are careful with the chemistry, the quartz will last. The liner builder tells us that the 27m liner will last 10-15 years too. Fading should be minimized with the auto cover. But I do understand that plaster is the preferred finish. We were under the impression a liner would be less costly to replace than plaster, but the salesmen really talk the talk, so hard to know what is true and what is bluster!

Again, many thanks and I'll report back!
 
A lot of builds are taking forever, lol. You may want to ask them what a realistic start date is and how long will the build be and if you haven't already, look up online reviews and see if the most recent ones say the builds are taking longer than they said they would. Also, make sure you do not agree to a payment schedule that is too front loaded...and certainly don't make last payment before they are done. How much are permits that Builder #2 isn't including them...and do you need to get the permits? 3 1/2 feet is pretty shallow so if you're still thinking about depth you might ask how much it is to go deeper.
We do know that 3.5 is shallow but we have young grandchildren and like to exercise in the shallow end, also. Both contracts are definitely front loaded, but that seems the norm. We are not so fortunate to live in an area with so many reputable builders, so can't really argue.
 
A lot of builds are taking forever, lol. You may want to ask them what a realistic start date is and how long will the build be and if you haven't already, look up online reviews and see if the most recent ones say the builds are taking longer than they said they would. Also, make sure you do not agree to a payment schedule that is too front loaded...and certainly don't make last payment before they are done. How much are permits that Builder #2 isn't including them...and do you need to get the permits? 3 1/2 feet is pretty shallow so if you're still thinking about depth you might ask how much it is to go deeper.
Thank you ! Both builders could start in the summer but we are opting to have a Sept build. Our house is near the beach and we have an existing above ground that we can use for the summer. Both builders quote 8-10 weeks. I have spoken with customers of both and hear very good things. Both have a+ BBB ratings.
 
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You have to remember 2 things with PB, they are trying to be low cost because they know homeowners are getting multiple bids. So, he might have quoted the PDA system because it may be lower cost to him. Just an assumption. If you like him, ask him to quote the iAquaLink. Now the second thing is that there is huge demand for all types of pool equipment, so he may be trying to use up his inventory or he cannot get reliable cost on an iAquaLink. By asking for the iAquaLink, you may get a feel about his issues.

As pointed out by Allen, Polaris has more modern pressure side cleaners such as the Quattro Sport. I agree, that your next best option would be an electric driven robot. You would need to have a GFCI outlet nearby (within code). Some people leave a robot in the pool all the time and others remove them. The only downside to leaving it in fulltime is that you have the cord across your deck or lawn.
 

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Those are great points about in stock items and future costs. I will definitely inquire about iAqualink and hopefully that will supply some insight! Appreciate everyone's help so much. What a daunting process. It's amazing to me how PBs sell such an expensive item - most I've ever spent besides a home! And they just ask you to trust them without much detail. CRAZY!!
 
Now as you say "near beach" it makes a bit more sense why the liner pool isn't a heck of a lot less to build. Technically they should be very far apart in price so once it's costing you may as well go for the gunnite. The balance issues on gunnite aren't any different then with a liner except for the start up.
 
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We are concerned about brushing the plaster in the fall

There is nothing special about plaster needing to be brushed after the first 30 days versus vinyl. The purpose of brushing is to breakup the biofilm in any algae on pool surfaces so that chlorine can attack it. Plaster and vinyl need to be brushed the same. If you don't brush the pool it is more likely to get algae.

The right pool cleaner with brushes will do much of the brushing for you. Which leads to the issue of a pool cleaner that works well in a covered pool. Few of them do. The problem is a good pool cleaner will climb the walls and bump into the cover which can upset it.

Folks here have had mixed results with their pool cleaner running with the cover closed and some had the cleaner damage the cover over time.

and the alkalinity issue.

There is no alkalinity issue. You may have it confused with some plaster pools have a constantly rising pH and need regular doses of acid to lower the pH. There are ways to deal with that by lowering the alkalinity or putting in a Stenner pump that automatically doses acid into the pool.

But I am aware that if we are careful with the chemistry, the quartz will last.

Quartz is an upgraded finish. What finish is your price quote for?

The liner builder tells us that the 27m liner will last 10-15 years too. Fading should be minimized with the auto cover. But I do understand that plaster is the preferred finish. We were under the impression a liner would be less costly to replace than plaster, but the salesmen really talk the talk, so hard to know what is true and what is bluster!

It all depends on how well your pool ages. I don't think any of those are hard benefits you can take to the bank.
 
There is nothing special about plaster needing to be brushed after the first 30 days versus vinyl. The purpose of brushing is to breakup the biofilm in any algae on pool surfaces so that chlorine can attack it. Plaster and vinyl need to be brushed the same. If you don't brush the pool it is more likely to get algae.

The right pool cleaner with brushes will do much of the brushing for you. Which leads to the issue of a pool cleaner that works well in a covered pool. Few of them do. The problem is a good pool cleaner will climb the walls and bump into the cover which can upset it.

Folks here have had mixed results with their pool cleaner running with the cover closed and some had the cleaner damage the cover over time.



There is no alkalinity issue. You may have it confused with some plaster pools have a constantly rising pH and need regular doses of acid to lower the pH. There are ways to deal with that by lowering the alkalinity or putting in a Stenner pump that automatically doses acid into the pool.



Quartz is an upgraded finish. What finish is your price quote for?



It all depends on how well your pool ages. I don't think any of those are hard benefits you can take to the bank.
 
A 20x50 is a huge pool I would talk you out of a 3.5 to 5.5 depth. As kids gets older they will want to jump in and you can't do that. Either pool has it's pros and cons. Are you planning on service for the life of the pool or are you doing some chems and cleaning yourselves?
 
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