Filtering Issues - What Else to Check

[Chevydude057]

Just about to open the pool this year. Equipment S180T92S Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1.0 HP 12A Pump, SP0714T Multi Port Valve.


I have a weird issue. Last year, whenever the pump, and only when the pump would run, I would get debris (almost like soil) in the middle on the pool. It's a 26' Above Ground Pool, used seasonally in New England. Last year we ruled out Algae. Passed Overnight Chlorine Loss multiple times, but I kept the SLAM going for an extra 5 days because the debris kept coming. I suck it out with a portable vac or vacuum to waste through the filter, and within an hour of the filter running I'm seeing it again. If I change the return jet eyeball, the location of the debris changes too.

At one point towards the end of the season I didn't run the pump of the filter for 10 days. No debris in the pool. The water was still pretty clear.

I've Done the Following:
SLAM. I did this for 12 days consecutively last year and no change.
Replaced Sand, and after a couple days added some DE to try and increase filtering capacity.
Replaced Spider Gasket in Hayward Pool Filter Valve.
Replaced Lines to and from Pump/Filter and Pool.
Removed and Inspected Fingers from Sand Filter. No visible Damage. I even took this to the pool store (I know, I know) to get their opinion. I figured if there was even a chance one was bad, they would happily want to sell me another setup. The confirmed, it looks perfect.
Added a Skimmer Basket Sock and old pillow innards to prevent large debris from entering filter.


Is there something I am missing? I'm going to try a slime bag, but thought I would reach out and see if there was another gasket, O-ring, anything that might cause this. Should I try Zeosand? Looking for what changes in equipment I should do before I set everything up.

 

[Texas Splash]

This time of year, perhaps you're just seeing pollen? That would explain why you didn't see it at the end of last season.

 

[Mdragger88]

Have u tried catching it in a skimmer sock placed on a return so u can see if it’s sand or something else & that it is truly being returned to the pool via the pump?
Also - a note on the zeo - i had it & hated it- it blew out of my returns & caused the problem u seem to have now.
In short, it may make your problem worse- not better.
What kind of sand did u put in the filter? Was it quickcrete brand?
Also how much sand did u put in there? About 3/4 full is max & definitely no higher than the top of the stand pipe. If u got sand down in the stand pipe it would definitely come out of the returns but I would think it would eventually go away.

 

[Chevydude057]

This time of year, perhaps you're just seeing pollen? That would explain why you didn't see it at the end of last season.

Unfortunately it happens all year long. I haven't opened the pool yet, so if there is an equipment piece I've missed inspecting/replacing I would like to do it now.

Have u tried catching it in a skimmer sock placed on a return so u can see if it’s sand or something else & that it is truly being returned to the pool via the pump?
Also - a note on the zeo - i had it & hated it- it blew out of my returns & caused the problem u seem to have now.
In short, it may make your problem worse- not better.
What kind of sand did u put in the filter? Was it quickcrete brand?
Also how much sand did u put in there? About 3/4 full is max & definitely no higher than the top of the stand pipe. If u got sand down in the stand pipe it would definitely come out of the returns but I would think it would eventually go away.

I don't seem to catch much in the skimmer basket except for bugs and leaves and bigger things.

That's what I mentioned above, I'm going to try the slimebag when I open the pool.

Thanks for the input on the Zero. That's what I was looking for, real world experience on it. The sand when I first bought the house was from the pool store (previous owners), I replaced it with Mystic White Pool sand from Ocean State Job Lot. Here's the link. https://www.oceanstatejoblot.com/mystic-white-pool-filter-sand-50-lbs/product/197045

The sand level was definitely below the stand pipe, maybe an inch? The only time I ever got any sand was during one of the backwashing. After I open the pool and get the chemicals balanced, I'll post photo's of the junk I get. But I figured I would start this thread before I opened it, to get some idea's of something I may have missed.

 

[Mdragger88]

If it’s not sand in the pool it’s possible that your sand is channeled some & your filter could use a deep clean to help it filter more efficiently.
Here’s the how to on that

Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

This post will walk you through the anatomy of a sand filter, and then provide a video at the end for how to deep clean your sand filter. The filter used in the photos and videos is a Hayward S180T top mount sand filter. The images are of a similar filter. Obviously not all filters are...

www.google.com

Here’s the manual to your filter with an exploded view of the parts incase u think u might be missing something

https://www.hayward-pool.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/manuals/perflex-IS180T90.pdf

Note that it mentions the top of the sand bed should be 6” from the top of the stand pipe.
The sand that u used should be fine- members here have noted that the quickcrete brand pool sand has had problems that’s why I mentioned it.

 

[Chevydude057]

If it’s not sand in the pool it’s possible that your sand is channeled some & your filter could use a deep clean to help it filter more efficiently.
Here’s the how to on that

Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

This post will walk you through the anatomy of a sand filter, and then provide a video at the end for how to deep clean your sand filter. The filter used in the photos and videos is a Hayward S180T top mount sand filter. The images are of a similar filter. Obviously not all filters are...

www.google.com

Here’s the manual to your filter with an exploded view of the parts incase u think u might be missing something

https://www.hayward-pool.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/manuals/perflex-IS180T90.pdf

Note that it mentions the top of the sand bed should be 6” from the top of the stand pipe.
The sand that u used should be fine- members here have noted that the quickcrete brand pool sand has had problems that’s why I mentioned it.

Thanks for that! I've changed the sand twice and backflushed according to TFP multiple times. But I didn't grab the manual. This time when I refill the sand into the filter (most likely today) I'm going to leave 6' below the top. I can't come to any reasoning as to why that would allow small debris past the filter, but right is right!


Maybe I'm just overly picky, but I was wondering, do they make finer finger for sand filters? Like ones that are similar to the ones in a DE filter. In theory, those would catch or stop the junk from getting into the pool.

 

[phonedave]

I have a DE filter, so I really cannot speak about your sand filter, however I have the same issue.

I get a grey dust/find dirt in certain spots on my pool. It's not algae, it is some sort of material. I suspect it is very fine DE, but I am not certain.

If I vacuum it up, it is back later that day.

I do exactly what you are going to try - a slime bag.

I put a slime bag on when I vacuums it up, and leave it on for a day or two after, and then it is gone for a good 3-4 weeks.

 

[Chevydude057]

I have a DE filter, so I really cannot speak about your sand filter, however I have the same issue.

I get a grey dust/find dirt in certain spots on my pool. It's not algae, it is some sort of material. I suspect it is very fine DE, but I am not certain.

If I vacuum it up, it is back later that day.

I do exactly what you are going to try - a slime bag.

I put a slime bag on when I vacuums it up, and leave it on for a day or two after, and then it is gone for a good 3-4 weeks.

I tried the slime yesterday afternoon and through the night. It caught quite a bit of small stuff, and the pool floor remained clear! So, I'm now pretty positive that it's some kind of "filtering issue".

I took it off to rinse it out, and I'll run the filter this afternoon or tomorrow (I work from home tomorrow) and see if it comes back. My initial thoughts of the slime bag are very positive! It is a little hard to get the clamp around the fitting, but otherwise it worked well.

Mine debris typically comes back within an hour of running the filter. So it'll be pretty quick to tell. It will kind of suck having to leave the slimebag on all the time, but it's better than a "dirty pool" I suppose.

 

[phonedave]

I tried the slime yesterday afternoon and through the night. It caught quite a bit of small stuff, and the pool floor remained clear! So, I'm now pretty positive that it's some kind of "filtering issue".

I took it off to rinse it out, and I'll run the filter this afternoon or tomorrow (I work from home tomorrow) and see if it comes back. My initial thoughts of the slime bag are very positive! It is a little hard to get the clamp around the fitting, but otherwise it worked well.

Mine debris typically comes back within an hour of running the filter. So it'll be pretty quick to tell. It will kind of suck having to leave the slimebag on all the time, but it's better than a "dirty pool" I suppose.

I leave mine on for 2-3 days and then take it off. I don't get the stuff back again for a month or so.

 

[Chevydude057]

I leave mine on for 2-3 days and then take it off. I don't get the stuff back again for a month or so.

I wanted to experiment. I turned the filter on with the eyeball, and in 15 minutes I can see a bunch of the crud on the bottom. I'm going to let it collect and vacuum it all through the slime bag. And maybe collect some to see.

The pool isn't balanced yet. I got it all together after having to reinsert some of the liner into the coping tray, and dumped chlorine in and turn the filter on last night.

I don't see how Algea wouldn't be there and then cover the bottom of the pool in 20 minutes because the filter is moving water, but I will post the water test results. I got new reagents the other day so we shall see!

 

[Chevydude057]

Wanted to bump this thread. I put the slim bag back on, vacuumed through the filter and the pump has been running for 6+ hours and the pool looks great. It's definitely some type of filtering issue. I'm guessing at this point something is wrong with the Multiport Valve. I've replaced the spider gasket, but I'm wondering if something else is wrong. Maybe one of the baffles inside or the block off section to close one port over another is broken or cracked.

I picked up a free one last season when someone was getting rid of their pool, I think I'm going to take it apart, inspect it, replace the gaskets, and swap them.

I took a sample of the junk with me to the pool store today (I wanted to see if they had the rebuild kit for the valve it in stock and they don't) and I put some of their 'Algaecide Xtreme:' that they were trying to sell me into a cup with the gunk. Nothing changed. It feels like potting soil. I'm glad I have my TFP test kit!

 

[Texas Splash]

I'm glad I have my TFP test kit!

100% Let us know how your filter and lateral inspection goes.

 

[pigeon]

Just wanted to chime in here...we replaced our sand this year. We had to do it THREE times before we finally got it right without sand coming back into the pool. First time, replaced the spider gasket assembly on the multiport valve (not just the gasket). Still getting sand. Second time replaced the lateral assembly. Still getting sand. Finally just pulled it all apart and were extremely careful about how the we put the sand back in, with respect to keeping the laterals lying as flat as they should. Success. We think the folding laterals were getting "pushed up" as we added sand in and that allowed sand to get in through the those little holes created as the laterals bent up (if that makes sense). I think we googled "sand getting into laterals" and there was a really good video that showed all the ways sand could get into that lateral assembly.

Good luck!

 

[Chevydude057]

100% Let us know how your filter and lateral inspection goes.

Filter and lateral inspection didn't turn up any results. I swapped the laterals and fingers over from the other set I had (theirs looked newer and in better condition) and no dice.

I've been using the slimebag 24/7 and it's been keeping the junk out of the pool. I just hate having the big bag floating in the pool, and it's not exactly easy to clean. The multiport valve looks fine, but I couldn't figure out anything else that could be letting the junk through, so we ended up buying a Cover and Handle Assembly, part number SPX0714BA. I replaced my spider gasket last year, and I really do think the problem got worse after that.

Well, no dice. 2 hours after it's all back up and running there's debris in the pool. I'm going to let it run a little while longer and then put the back back on an vacuum it out through the slime bag.

I did take the multiport valve off and the top sand in the sand filter is pretty dirty. I mean, there's a lot of bugs and junk on the top, but the pressure is only at 12.5psi.


For what it's worth, I was on vacation 3 weeks ago and when I got back, the water was still clear but there was clearly some algea in the pool. A couple of cloudy looking sports that disappear as soon as you vacuum them. 3 days, a quick SLAM, and it was gone. Totally different than this stuff. This is like potting soil. I've just never actually seen Algea before in my pool.

I've been skimmer basket socks, and some of the Crud I catch in the sock is the same Crud I'm getting out when I rinse the slimebag. So somehow, somewhere, that small junk if getting by the filter.

One question I do have, is the new part came with an extra couple of O-rings and a flat washer, that I couldn't tell where they were supposed to go. There were other comments from people that said they didn't use them. Anyone know where they would go? My old assembly doesn't seem to have them either.

 

[Texas Splash]

Two things that catch my attention:
1 - When you saw algae, did you ever do the SLAM Process all the way through completion? Passed all 3 SLAM criteria?
2 - Based on what you saw on the sand, a good deep clean may be in order.

Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

This post will walk you through the anatomy of a sand filter, and then provide a video at the end for how to deep clean your sand filter. The filter used in the photos and videos is a Hayward S180T top mount sand filter. The images are of a similar filter. Obviously not all filters are...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Chevydude057]

Two things that catch my attention:
1 - When you saw algae, did you ever do the SLAM Process all the way through completion? Passed all 3 SLAM criteria?
2 - Based on what you saw on the sand, a good deep clean may be in order.

Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

This post will walk you through the anatomy of a sand filter, and then provide a video at the end for how to deep clean your sand filter. The filter used in the photos and videos is a Hayward S180T top mount sand filter. The images are of a similar filter. Obviously not all filters are...

www.troublefreepool.com

Yes I did. On day 2 of the slam I passed, but I ran it another day just to be safe. No signs of the algae.

Just the junk that comes out of the filter when I run it. ONLY WHEN I RUN THE FILTER.

The water is clear. It's always been clear. I don't understand how this much Crud could be getting through. But I will say, the filter socks are catching quite a bit of junk.

I don't mind deep cleaning the filter. I do have a question. When the sand was new this year the problem was there. I was hoping as the filter filled up with debris, the debris would fill in some of the gaps and it would filter better. Like, how a dirty filter is actually a better filter than a clean filter.

At this point I've ruled out chemicals/Algae from doing the 12 day slam. It's not the laterals or standpipe. It's not the hoses, as they have been replaced, it's not the internals to the multiport valve (Unless someone has an idea where those gaskets/o-rings were supposed to go?). What else should be checked? I'll get more photo's this afternoon of the stuff. I had a filter sock on overnight and I collected some of it, and I'll post comparative photos to what comes out of the return jet.

 

[Chevydude057]

Just wanted to post a quick update.

I put the slimebag back on, vacuumed all the debris off the pool floor and ran the filter for 12 hours overnight. Pool floor looks great. No debris anywhere.

It's almost as if not going through the filter at all. I've checked all the connections, the line from the pump is going to the "pump" part of the multiport, etc. I'm going to take the multiport off again after work and inspect it again, against the spare one that I have.

I've reached out to the company I bought the replacement about the extra o-ring/flat washer that were in the package. I think the flat washer is for under the handle for it to slide around, but the o-rings, I'm just baffled.

 

[Chevydude057]

** UPDATE **

After the new cover and handle assembly didn't fix the problem, I once again took the multiport valve off. The only thing I could see, except a dirty filter was the Diffuser basket was a weird whitish color(I've attached a picture) and the screw securing it was pretty rusty. I had a spare one, and I figured what the heck, I'll swap them out and see. I've looked at it, and looked at it, and besides the color I can not find any damage, any cracks, or anything discernibly different from the one I replaced it with.

Well it's been 9 days, 9 DAYS, and the filter has run for 50+ hours and the problem has not returned. After the big 2 days rain storm I had a tiny amount of settlement, which vacuumed out the same as what I've been collecting for a year, and didn't come back. I assume that's normal and typical. I will still use the slimebag when I vacuum just as an added measure, but I believe I have finally found and fixed my problem!

Can anyone tell me in detail exactly what the diffuser does? And how it could have been causing this?

 

[cj133]

** UPDATE **

After the new cover and handle assembly didn't fix the problem, I once again took the multiport valve off. The only thing I could see, except a dirty filter was the Diffuser basket was a weird whitish color(I've attached a picture) and the screw securing it was pretty rusty. I had a spare one, and I figured what the heck, I'll swap them out and see. I've looked at it, and looked at it, and besides the color I can not find any damage, any cracks, or anything discernibly different from the one I replaced it with.

Well it's been 9 days, 9 DAYS, and the filter has run for 50+ hours and the problem has not returned. After the big 2 days rain storm I had a tiny amount of settlement, which vacuumed out the same as what I've been collecting for a year, and didn't come back. I assume that's normal and typical. I will still use the slimebag when I vacuum just as an added measure, but I believe I have finally found and fixed my problem!

Can anyone tell me in detail exactly what the diffuser does? And how it could have been causing this?

If diffuses the water so it doesn't spray down at the sand directly. Think of it like a shower head.

How loose does the white pipe from the laterals fit into the bottom of the multiport valve?

 

[Chevydude057]

If diffuses the water so it doesn't spray down at the sand directly. Think of it like a shower head.

How loose does the white pipe from the laterals fit into the bottom of the multiport valve?

Not very tight to be honest. I looked at both the old and the new diffuser and they fit just about the same.