FC & TA off the chart high

[mjrin2it]

Hi, I have maintaining my pools regularly with the help of TFP for years. A couple weeks ago, I did my water testing and my chlorine was turning the k1000 orange. So I then did the Chlorine drop test in the TF-100 kit just to get an accurate" FC reading. I stopped counting the R-0871 drops at 30 and water did not change to clear. Took sample to Leslie's (I know), but I did. They too had me at above 20FC. I shut the salt cell off for a week and ordered all new reagents. Today same level of FC and TA is now off the chart as well. Like 160+. My salt is 2800 so I added a 40lb bag today.

I thought my reagents were bad (one had expired in March) but the rest were ok but I ordered all new anyway. Can there be something else I'm not seeing?
Thank you for any help in this matter.
Mike

Leslie's Test Results.
FC 20
ph - 7.8
ta - 85
Calcium - 313
CYA - 98
Phosphates - 1300
salt - 2574

My results:
Fc - 30+
ph - 8.0
ta - ? (it never changed to red after 30 drops of r-0009)
cya - 88
Salt- 2800

 

[Newdude]

Can there be something else I'm not seeing?

We're about 1 month away from the shortest day of the year, and the sun angle is low in the sky, no matter where we live. (Northern hemisphere at least). It is going to take some time, possibly 2 weeks, to lower the FC level back to range. With a 90 CYA, it's safe in the meantime.

But with little daily loss, your SWG just kept chugging along and here we are. Thank the little guy for trying and wait it out.

 

[mjrin2it]

We're about 1 month away from the shortest day of the year, and the sun angle is low in the sky, no matter where we live. (Northern hemisphere at least). It is going to take some time, possibly 2 weeks, to lower the FC level back to range. With a 90 CYA, it's safe in the meantime.

But with little daily loss, your SWG just kept chugging along and here we are. Thank the little guy for trying and wait it out.

Ok...I will wait it out. I bought some Leslie's Chlor Nuetralizer. Should I keep that out of this equation or use it? I'm not swimming in it, so no real hurry. Thank you for the rapid response.

 

[jimbethesda]

Do you know how many PPM of chlorine per day you were producing before you turned it off?

Ok...I will wait it out. I bought some Leslie's Chlor Nuetralizer. Should I keep that out of this equation or use it? I'm not swimming in it, so no real hurry. Thank you for the rapid response.

Return it.

 

[mjrin2it]

Return it.

Will do. I never buy anything from them (phosphates is their big push) but I caved on this one. Thanks.

 

[mjrin2it]

Do you know how many PPM of chlorine per day you were producing before you turned it off?

I do not. Not sure how I measure that, honestly. My FC has never been above 10 unless I slam (which I've only ever needed to do twice). I usually keep it around 6 and I test every week. Only drops to 3 FC in a week.

 

[Newdude]

Not sure how I measure that, honestly

Poolmath, upper left menu, effects of adding, swg, 1.25 lbs chlorine, 100%, 24 hr, 12 FC per day.

Or 1 FC every 2 hours 'on'.

Also, you mentioned 30 drops being 30+FC. It's .2 or .5 FC per drop depending on sample size, unless you were using 5ml, which many don't. Then it's 1:1.

Also also, raise your target considerably when it warms up. You're flirting with Swampville at 3 to 6. We round CYA to the next 10 so yours is 90 and you want 6 FC to be your absolute min. I run 10+ with 70 CYA.

 

[jimbethesda]

I do not. Not sure how I measure that, honestly. My FC has never been above 10 unless I slam (which I've only ever needed to do twice). I usually keep it around 6 and I test every week. Only drops to 3 FC in a week.

This is the cornerstone of TFP. See the post above. Download the pool math app. Here's my process.....

Let's say I test and get 6ppm of chlorine. Great, that's a little above where I need to be. No change to my SWG (currently set for 1ppm per day). A week later I test and get 8ppm. Now I know that my pools usage the last week was only about .71ppm per day. (7ppm of chlorine production minus 2ppm divided by 7 days = .71ppm/day). Now I can change my SWG to only create .71ppm per day to hold steady.

Any other method and you're just guessing (or in your case slowly increasing your chlorine levels every day).

Hope this was helpful.

 

[mjrin2it]

Poolmath, upper left menu, effects of adding, swg, 1.25 lbs chlorine, 100%, 24 hr, 12 FC per day.

Or 1 FC every 2 hours 'on'.

Also, you mentioned 30 drops being 30+FC. It's .2 or .5 FC per drop depending on sample size, unless you were using 5ml, which many don't. Then it's 1:1.

Also also, raise your target considerably when it warms up. You're flirting with Swampville at 3 to 6. We round CYA to the next 10 so yours is 90 and you want 6 FC to be your absolute min. I run 10+ with 70 CYA.

View attachment 540978

So running my VS pump 8 hrs/day is generating approx. 4FC per day.
I read on the CYA to FC chart that SWG pools tend to stay Algae free at a lower minimum FC level compared with the minimum FC column for manually dosed pools. So I was keeping it at 6 thinking it would be twice as high as the minimum, but will change my perspective now.

 

[mjrin2it]

This is the cornerstone of TFP. See the post above. Download the pool math app. Here's my process.....

Let's say I test and get 6ppm of chlorine. Great, that's a little above where I need to be. No change to my SWG (currently set for 1ppm per day). A week later I test and get 8ppm. Now I know that my pools usage the last week was only about .71ppm per day. (7ppm of chlorine production minus 2ppm divided by 7 days = .71ppm/day). Now I can change my SWG to only create .71ppm per day to hold steady.

Any other method and you're just guessing (or in your case slowly increasing your chlorine levels every day).

Hope this was helpful.

I have been using the Pool Math app ever since it was created. You measure, type in the digits, it tells you what to add and how much. It doesn't tell me what you just wrote. ha ha Figuring out how often to run my pump, and what % to keep Salt Cell on to maintain the levels I want/need is what my issue is. Thank you for the explanation, it helps.

 

[jimbethesda]

I have been using the Pool Math app ever since it was created. You measure, type in the digits, it tells you what to add and how much. It doesn't tell me what you just wrote. ha ha Figuring out how often to run my pump, and what % to keep Salt Cell on to maintain the levels I want/need is what my issue is. Thank you for the explanation, it helps.

It does, but it isn't as straightforward. I'll explain in a little more detail....

First of all, you should setup how much chlorine your SWG creates at 100% in 24hours (in lbs). Go to your pool setup settings. There is a search button to the right of the24 hour SWG Chlorine Output field. Your signature says Aquapure. If it's the 700, it's .63/lbs/day, if it's the 1400, it's 1.25lbs per day. If you have a different model, you'll have to look it up (or reply back with the model and I will). Also make sure your pool gallons is correct.

Ok, now that it's setup correctly....In my example, I want to now create .71ppm per day. I go to the FC section, type in my current FC value (in my example I had 8), then for Target Free Chlorine, I type in 8.71 to say I want to create .71ppm per day. Then pick SWG for the type of sanitizer and it will auto-populate the lbs per day value you put in settings. Pick pump hours in the pull down and enter the number of hours you run your for per day. It will then tell you what % to set it at. I also then press the Log addition to add my change to my log.

It sounds more complicated than it is, and is really helpful. Let me know if you need more help.

 

[Mdragger88]

 

[jimbethesda]

That's answering a slightly different question. That's answering how much chlorine do I produce with a given pump runtime and %. Much more useful is to say I want to create xPPM, what % should I use given this amount of pump runtime.

 

[Mdragger88]

That's answering a slightly different question. That's answering how much chlorine do I produce with a given pump runtime and %. Much more useful is to say I want to create xPPM, what % should I use given this amount of pump runtime.

This is just the effects of adding- so the effect of adding a specific % or run time is fc.
In the fc overview card - if you have the swg set up in the settings it tells you how to hit your fc target

 

[jimbethesda]

This is just the effects of adding- so the effect of adding a specific % or run time is fc.
In the fc overview card - if you have the swg set up in the settings it tells you how to hit your fc target

Yes, I know. I guess you didn’t read my post.

 

[Mdragger88]

Yes, I know. I guess you didn’t read my post.

I saw - just trying to condense for the op.
Anywho, Hopefully the video was helpful for him to see what his swcg is capable of producing. I made it after trying to explain it multiple times. The how to can get a bit lost in the big poolmath tutorial.
I have always just used the effects of adding personally - never the built in part in the fc card until very recently. I can see how some people might prefer one over the other. I guess for me I don’t expect my swg to make up an fc deficit persay, just maintain, so I only use the fc card for the manual additions.
I guess effects of adding is kinda like pre planning what will happen if you do this or that (hypothetical) vs the cards being reactionary & then logging that.
I believe there’s some things in the works for poolmath - always trying to make it more intuitive!

 

[Bperry]

Hi, I have maintaining my pools regularly with the help of TFP for years. A couple weeks ago, I did my water testing and my chlorine was turning the k1000 orange. So I then did the Chlorine drop test in the TF-100 kit just to get an accurate" FC reading. I stopped counting the R-0871 drops at 30 and water did not change to clear. Took sample to Leslie's (I know), but I did. They too had me at above 20FC. I shut the salt cell off for a week and ordered all new reagents. Today same level of FC and TA is now off the chart as well. Like 160+. My salt is 2800 so I added a 40lb bag today.

I thought my reagents were bad (one had expired in March) but the rest were ok but I ordered all new anyway. Can there be something else I'm not seeing?
Thank you for any help in this matter.
Mike

Leslie's Test Results.
FC 20
ph - 7.8
ta - 85
Calcium - 313
CYA - 98
Phosphates - 1300
salt - 2574

My results:
Fc - 30+
ph - 8.0
ta - ? (it never changed to red after 30 drops of r-0009)
cya - 88
Salt- 2800

If you stopped at 30 drops then your FC is 15ppm and not 30ppm. You need more chlorine if anything, not less if your CYA is 90ppm (test kit only measures 80 or 90, not between)

 

[Newdude]

I read on the CYA to FC chart that SWG pools tend to stay Algae free at a lower minimum FC level compared with the minimum FC column for manually dosed pools

Yes because the SWG never gets too busy or tired to add chlorine today. And also because with it adding FC over a long period of time, so long as it runs during daylight hours, the SWG pool swings less than a LC pool which gets spiked and drifts down.

So theoretically you *could* dance the minimum line closer. But it's foolish to do so. No matter how high the UV / daily loss was yesterday, today could be higher and you'd be below min.

I found my unit off 7 or 8 times this season after big storms, throwing a low salt light. It runs a self check every 12 hours and whether I just filled or it's rain, it will stop production until the next test if the pool hasn't mixed enough yet.

Many SWGs are only run at night for energy savings, so the pool swings more like a LC pool and should follow those #s.

Many SWGs are honking oversized and with short run times, even if during daylight, the pool will swing more like a LC pool and should follow those #s.

We added a range to the SWG chart to reflect this. Its a fools errand to try and dial in the '5' that was on the old chart.

So many of us treat low target as our minimum, and minimum is lava so many of us give *that* plenty of room. #teamrunhot.