Extreme High Combined Chlorine after Metal Treatment

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Do not add any acid. The FC levels are messing with that test result.

5 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine in your pool volume would have raised your FC by 79 ppm.

Let things settle for a day or two and retest. Very thoroughly follow the directions in FAS-DPD Chlorine Test
 
mknauss said:
Do not add any acid. The FC levels are messing with that test result.

5 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine in your pool volume would have raised your FC by 79 ppm.

Let things settle for a day or two and retest. Very thoroughly follow the directions in FAS-DPD Chlorine Test
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Thank you. I will. This is the process I have been following with the test kit:
10mm pool water
Add 2 dippers of 0870 powder (water turns pink)
Add 0871 drop by drop until water turns clear (58 drops this morning)
Add 5 drops of 0003 DPD Reagent (water turns pink again)
Add 0871 drop by drop until water turns clear (stopped at 100 drops this morning - no change to water color)

I am really nervous that I am hurting my pool. Is there any chance that the CC results are skewed by residue of the metal treatment remaining in the 10% of water left after the drain/refill?
 
I doubt you drained 90% of the pool volume. Or else your CYA was far higher than you thought.

The FAS-DPD test method sounds correct.

You have many chemicals messing with your testing. Turn off the SWCG and let things settle for a couple days.
 
Update: I emptied the pool myself - 100%. So now the water is pristine (no CC, no phosphate soup, chlorine perfect). So, I am slowwwly bringing my CYA and CH up, and have a question:

I am struggling with the Taylor CH test results. When I perform the test, the color changes from red to violet. I would not call it blue. Adding extra drops does not make it blue-er.

I have tried the procedure where I add 5 drops of the reagent to the sample before beginning the test. Same result… violet, not blue.

So I guess my question is… should I be looking for true blue, or is violet ok.

For further information: If going by the violet, my CH is 170 ppm. This is after adding just 4# of Calcium Chloride… seems logical to me. To check my results, I took a sample to PP, but they read 300 and say not to add any more.

So before I go relying on my test result, I thought I would check in with you regarding the blue vs violet question. (I say ‘violet’ because that really is the color… not the red/blue of classic purple)

Thank you again
 
Theresa320 said:
That helped! I got a result that I would call blue. My test has CH at 225 now.
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It should look like a baby blue color but it’s a bit subjective depending on lighting and background. You need to keep adding drops until the color stops changing then subtract the last drop. You’re not looking for a specific color of blue so much as you’re looking for the color to stop changing. That’s the endpoint of the test.
 

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JamesW said:
Did you count the initial 5 drops?
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Yes I did. I performed the test again this morning and came up with 275 when the color stopped changing.

Curious, I took samples taken at the same time to PP and Leslie’s for confirmation. PP also came up with 275. Leslie’s was 148. Wow… what a difference.
 
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Hello Forum,
I believe I have just one last topic related to this posting:

My pool water is now in perfect balance. All copper staining is gone. My copper content is below 0.05ppm. I have just turned 'on' the copper scuppers that started this mess (said mess being copper staining all over the pool as a result of pool service adding far too much acid at once while scuppers were running).

Now that I am maintaining the pool, I plan to keep close control over the water balance and will no longer permit the copper patina to be 'stripped' from the scuppers. However, I am considering also using a maintenance dose of Jack's Magic 'magenta stuff' which is a (phosphate-free) metallic mineral sequestrant. I have been in touch with the Jack's Magic folks and they contend that, because I plan to run the scuppers, using this in combination with proper pool balance will prevent the problem from recurring. (FYI: They have another sequestrant that is more specialized for copper, but it contains phosphates that can skew my testing. I don't want to make chemical soup again. Also, the 'magenta stuff' is supposedly designed to keep the salt cell clean and extend its life in addition to taking metals out of the water.)

Does anyone have any thoughts to share on this strategy? As always, your advice and feedback is much appreciated.
 
Theresa320 said:
Hello Forum,
I believe I have just one last topic related to this posting:

My pool water is now in perfect balance. All copper staining is gone. My copper content is below 0.05ppm. I have just turned 'on' the copper scuppers that started this mess (said mess being copper staining all over the pool as a result of pool service adding far too much acid at once while scuppers were running).

Now that I am maintaining the pool, I plan to keep close control over the water balance and will no longer permit the copper patina to be 'stripped' from the scuppers. However, I am considering also using a maintenance dose of Jack's Magic 'magenta stuff' which is a (phosphate-free) metallic mineral sequestrant. I have been in touch with the Jack's Magic folks and they contend that, because I plan to run the scuppers, using this in combination with proper pool balance will prevent the problem from recurring. (FYI: They have another sequestrant that is more specialized for copper, but it contains phosphates that can skew my testing. I don't want to make chemical soup again. Also, the 'magenta stuff' is supposedly designed to keep the salt cell clean and extend its life in addition to taking metals out of the water.)

Does anyone have any thoughts to share on this strategy? As always, your advice and feedback is much appreciated.
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If the sequestering agent is not HEDP then what is it? There are poly-ionic compounds based on carboxylic acid residues but it would be good to know what you're adding to your pool.

I really don't think you need to add sequestrants regularly but that is entirely up to you. They are an added cost. Also, think of it this way - when you add a metal sequestering agent to water, you are INCREASING the solubility of metal ions into the water. In other words, you are promoting the dissolution of copper. This means that your water can effectively hold a higher concentration of dissolved metal ions than water without a sequestrant. That can potentially make your problems worse, not better. You'll be masking the problem and then, you'll forget to add sequestrant, and whole bunch of copper will precipitate out of solution. So the real solution is to eliminate the source of the problem, not put a bandaid on the symptoms.

Here's what I would do with the scuppers - there are chemical agents you can buy that you can apply to the entire exposed surfaces of the scuppers to help it form a patina. Once that patina is to your liking, you can then purchase metal sealers that are paintable that will lock in the patina and add a protective layer to the scupper that is chemically resistant and inert. Here in the southwest we have lots of wrought-iron gates and fences. A typical installation lets the iron sit out for a season in the elements to develop a nice oxidized finish (rust essentially) and then you come back and hit it with a glassy metal sealer. The sealant prevents further rusting and makes the iron waterproof. Sealing lasts a few years and then you reapply. The same process can be done with your scuppers and then you will never have the copper metal problem again.
 
I do like your coating suggestion @JoyfulNoise. I suppose my preference would be to add something to the water that does not exacerbate the problem. Does it make any difference that the 'magenta stuff' is PAC based (polyacrylic acid). Would this also increase the solubility of metal ions into the water? If so, then I will seek an external sealant.
 
Theresa320 said:
Oh my goodness. I am at a loss.

First off, I think I added too much chlorine. The FC level was not coming up to SLAM (12) so I kept adding (got to 5 gal and then decided to stop). This morning, I tested with my FAS-DPD kit. FC = 29. CC is so high I cannot even get a reading - the test water is magenta and will not come down even with 100 drops. I am certain I am performing the test correctly (using the 10mm sample). HOWEVER, for verification, I took a sample to Leslie's and they come up with FC=12.5 and TC=12.5. So by their machine I am right where I want to be!

Also, although I know pH is skewed by the chlorine (it was at 7.4 when I started this), I am now getting a reading of over 8 with the acid demand calling for over a gallon of acid. Do you think that I should add some (maybe just a cup or two) to try and keep this from getting out of hand? My pool's pH has a tendency to creep up naturally anyway.

I would be grateful for advice as to how to proceed from here.
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What was your final outcome???

I have a 16,000 gallon pool. I just completed treatment with "Suncoast Stop Stains Stain Remove" which I believe is t he same as Jack's Magic for Copper, Sulfamic Acid.. My pool looks great!! I'm waiting for my test kit to come in so I can quit relying on my pool store. Then, I have to decide if I want to drain and refill, or "wait it out" and add liquid chlorine. I have to drain out about 1/3 most likely anyway, due to my salt being way way too high. Was just looking for some insight, see if I'm better off waiting it out or draining. It's only Feb 1 so I have time to wait it out b4 pool season. I am also located in Central Florida (Ocala). Its the dry season.... concerns about pool popping out of ground???

-Calvin
 
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