So i dumped about 5 lbs of citric acid on there following the aa trwatment guide. Ph 7.2 fc was 2 and took cartridge out and circulated for 30 min. Looks like no diff....
experts please verify something for me
- Thread starter bonanz
- Start date
citric acid takes longer to work then ascorbic acid. i tried that first, when i did mine and it took a good day or more to have an effect. the ascorbic acid seemed to work in like an hour or so.
Ok. Ill try to be patient woth it. So leave the pump circulating 24 hrs?
I got desperate and ran to leslies and tried a sock of dry acid on some of the stain and that worked the best of anything i tried so far.
Actually noticed a difference
I got desperate and ran to leslies and tried a sock of dry acid on some of the stain and that worked the best of anything i tried so far.
Actually noticed a difference
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,890
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
You may have cracked the code on that one.
Patience grasshopper 
But here is something to remember. I reality, it's just a stain. :angel: I know it's unsightly and we will try to get it cleared up. But it isn't going to stop you from swimming and otherwise enjoying the water.
But here is something to remember. I reality, it's just a stain. :angel: I know it's unsightly and we will try to get it cleared up. But it isn't going to stop you from swimming and otherwise enjoying the water.
I can't sock a whole pool with dry acid can i? Hopefully the cotric acid does its thing over night
If the dry acid worked best and what you have on hand is MA...AND if the citric acids doesn't nail it...try one of these filled with MA: Amazon.com : Purity Pool OS Out Spot Stain Remover : Swimming Pool Stain Removers : Patio, Lawn Garden
I know you said you hate waiting for mail...but thought I'd share a Plan B
For some people, once the stain turns black it will lift. For others, not. Fingers crossed for you!
BTW i have a hunch how those stains came to be in that pattern...you shocked (causing copper to precipitate) and flocced (some flocs will gather the metal oxides).
I know you said you hate waiting for mail...but thought I'd share a Plan B
For some people, once the stain turns black it will lift. For others, not. Fingers crossed for you!
BTW i have a hunch how those stains came to be in that pattern...you shocked (causing copper to precipitate) and flocced (some flocs will gather the metal oxides).
haha, I was looking at exactly that page on amazon thinking about it.
I tried to put some diluted MA in in the garden spray and reach down and spray some areas on the steps that had some black reaction and I'm not so sure it worked....maybe my MA is bad... i'm losing my mind staring at stains today.
I tried to put some diluted MA in in the garden spray and reach down and spray some areas on the steps that had some black reaction and I'm not so sure it worked....maybe my MA is bad... i'm losing my mind staring at stains today.
Well, you need to hold the MA against it for a good contact period, which is why the sprayer doesn't sound like a plan. You could take a bowl with a large sponge in it, carefully soak with MA, overturn bowl, use leaf rake or net to get into position on a stain and hold it there for a few...but pease be careful foolin with MA This would be a home-rigged variant of what that tool does.
I own one, and have to say its way easier than home-rigged attempts Let us know how its looking today! Sending you the "out-darned-spot" mojo
This would be a home-rigged variant of what that tool does.I own one, and have to say its way easier than home-rigged attempts
Let us know how its looking today! Sending you the "out-darned-spot" mojo I woke up this morning and ran to the pool like a young boy on Christmas....nothing yet.
in addition to the one pole attachment swampwoman linked to has anyone tried one either of these?
Amazon.com: Purity Pool UAW Underwater Acid Wash Set: Patio, Lawn Garden
Amazon.com : Jandy 1148 Stain Remover (Handle Not Included) : Swimming Pool Stain Removers : Patio, Lawn Garden
in addition to the one pole attachment swampwoman linked to has anyone tried one either of these?
Amazon.com: Purity Pool UAW Underwater Acid Wash Set: Patio, Lawn Garden
Amazon.com : Jandy 1148 Stain Remover (Handle Not Included) : Swimming Pool Stain Removers : Patio, Lawn Garden
so I dumped the entirety of the citric acid in (maybe close to 7-8lbs in its entirety over 24 hrs) and its been running without the cartridge filter in for 24 hours. FC is 0.
I don't see much difference. SOmetimes I look at it and think its "a little" lighter, but looking at it at various times of the day in different lights with jets blasting is hard to tell.
I'm thinking this hasn't worked and I should add chlorine back in and regroup. The only think that has worked clearly in my mind is the sock of dry acid. which seems like it'd be dificult to do a whole pool that way. Maybe I can fill a burlap sack with dry acid and tie it to a rope and drag it around the bottom of the pool to cover larger areas
At this point I would pay for a drain and acid wash (even though turning that water clear and then draining would make me tear up), but I'm afraid I have water table issues here. a few houses down had a pool installed and I'm sure what the details were, but I think they dug the hole for the pool and then it was just filling with water they ran pipe out the sewer drain on the street and it was pumping water for like a month. every time you'd drive down the street so much water pumping inoto the sewer and it was ground water because in the neighborhood you can tell the houses that have a well vs city water by the stains they have on the sidewalks and this pool drain system was having the same type of staining.
Maybe I should just re balance the pool and get a giant tub of dry acid and a costco pack of socks and go crazy all weekend? haha
or get one of these MA delivery systems to work on the pole
I don't see much difference. SOmetimes I look at it and think its "a little" lighter, but looking at it at various times of the day in different lights with jets blasting is hard to tell.
I'm thinking this hasn't worked and I should add chlorine back in and regroup. The only think that has worked clearly in my mind is the sock of dry acid. which seems like it'd be dificult to do a whole pool that way. Maybe I can fill a burlap sack with dry acid and tie it to a rope and drag it around the bottom of the pool to cover larger areas
At this point I would pay for a drain and acid wash (even though turning that water clear and then draining would make me tear up), but I'm afraid I have water table issues here. a few houses down had a pool installed and I'm sure what the details were, but I think they dug the hole for the pool and then it was just filling with water they ran pipe out the sewer drain on the street and it was pumping water for like a month. every time you'd drive down the street so much water pumping inoto the sewer and it was ground water because in the neighborhood you can tell the houses that have a well vs city water by the stains they have on the sidewalks and this pool drain system was having the same type of staining.
Maybe I should just re balance the pool and get a giant tub of dry acid and a costco pack of socks and go crazy all weekend? haha
or get one of these MA delivery systems to work on the pole
Well, some companies use a dewatering process when working on a pool in high water table (drill and pump off water while working.) it jacks up the price for sure but you could ask.
In your shoes, I don't think I'd go the dry acid route -- it adds a lot of sulphate to the water which can cause problems if built up too high.
I've never used the delivery systems you found, but I suspect that may be your best option short of a "wet" or no drain acid wash. I don't know enough about proper care of plaster to give worthy advice on this topic and don't want to see you exacerbate the situation.
There is a poster called OnBalance who is very knowledgable about plaster...might be worth a pm to him?
Another avenue that's not likely especially cheap or quick in the DIY department (depending on whether in stock near you) would be to take a look at the Jacks Magic stain removal system, testing with their stain kit, and then using the recommended remover...I believe they have one that's more effective on copper. While at TFP we kinda eschew the risk of getting pool stored, Jacks co. is reasonably astute in that they're cognizant of stain testing methodology...their formulations are pretty targeted, etc. In my experience, their products and intel have been useful, though in terms of sequestrant, I also like ProTeam's metal magic.
Either way, you'll want some sequestrant in that water because if you lift those stains, the metal will redeposit if its not given something else to bind to...the MA doesn't dissolve them or anything.
You can also call Jacks Magic and ask for a technician...they're quite good about giving situational advice and matching appropriate product and procedures. Have your water parameters on hand when you call, eg your calcium level in particular.
Hope that helps give you some resources. Take a look at the sequestrant and stain remover lineup here and use the 1800 number : Jack's Magic Products, Inc.
In your shoes, I don't think I'd go the dry acid route -- it adds a lot of sulphate to the water which can cause problems if built up too high.
I've never used the delivery systems you found, but I suspect that may be your best option short of a "wet" or no drain acid wash. I don't know enough about proper care of plaster to give worthy advice on this topic and don't want to see you exacerbate the situation.
There is a poster called OnBalance who is very knowledgable about plaster...might be worth a pm to him?
Another avenue that's not likely especially cheap or quick in the DIY department (depending on whether in stock near you) would be to take a look at the Jacks Magic stain removal system, testing with their stain kit, and then using the recommended remover...I believe they have one that's more effective on copper. While at TFP we kinda eschew the risk of getting pool stored, Jacks co. is reasonably astute in that they're cognizant of stain testing methodology...their formulations are pretty targeted, etc. In my experience, their products and intel have been useful, though in terms of sequestrant, I also like ProTeam's metal magic.
Either way, you'll want some sequestrant in that water because if you lift those stains, the metal will redeposit if its not given something else to bind to...the MA doesn't dissolve them or anything.
You can also call Jacks Magic and ask for a technician...they're quite good about giving situational advice and matching appropriate product and procedures. Have your water parameters on hand when you call, eg your calcium level in particular.
Hope that helps give you some resources. Take a look at the sequestrant and stain remover lineup here and use the 1800 number : Jack's Magic Products, Inc.
Have a look at this thread to get a better understanding of plaster and how not to damage it, Diagnosing Pool Plaster Problems
+1 on getting the stain ID kit and calling Jacks Magic for some extra help, Jacks Magic Stain Identification Kit JMSTAINID at Sunplay
Given your info on the water table in the area I would never drain your pool.
+1 on getting the stain ID kit and calling Jacks Magic for some extra help, Jacks Magic Stain Identification Kit JMSTAINID at Sunplay
Given your info on the water table in the area I would never drain your pool.
The stains actually look noticeably lighter today. I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining it. I had the wife come look and she said it did look lighter. there's still very noticable stains that I think I'll have to use the MA with the pole delivery tool I ordered, but I think it's gotten generally lighter.
I took my last litlte bit of dry acid and socked one more tough stain and it definitely worked good on it.
I need to add some sequestrant before I undo my work (more like hand wringing) and let it re-stain. What Should I use as far as Pink blue etc stuff from jack. or is there a general puprose brand sequestrant that they carry at Pinch penny.
I'm also probably going to pick up a culator 4.0 since it seems like it gets more and more evidence that it's not hocus pocus...
I also wanted to add some salt because it's low and I inspected the SWG cell and it looks clean and ready to go, just the salt is low. Any issue with that right now in the middle of this?
so plan for today and next couple of days:
PAP - get sequest of some sort and dump it in.
put filter back in.
start rebalancing water.
toss culator in trap (if I pick one one up today)
get a couple bags of salt (dump in if no conflict with the stain actions taking so far)
see if that SWG actually works fine and cooks up chlorine slowly to raise it back up
await arrival of MA delivery pole tool.
Tackle the stubborn stains directly with that
keep balancing out PH as I do that.
if it works, collapse near the pool and get sunburned without even swimming in it?
I took my last litlte bit of dry acid and socked one more tough stain and it definitely worked good on it.
I need to add some sequestrant before I undo my work (more like hand wringing) and let it re-stain. What Should I use as far as Pink blue etc stuff from jack. or is there a general puprose brand sequestrant that they carry at Pinch penny.
I'm also probably going to pick up a culator 4.0 since it seems like it gets more and more evidence that it's not hocus pocus...
I also wanted to add some salt because it's low and I inspected the SWG cell and it looks clean and ready to go, just the salt is low. Any issue with that right now in the middle of this?
so plan for today and next couple of days:
PAP - get sequest of some sort and dump it in.
put filter back in.
start rebalancing water.
toss culator in trap (if I pick one one up today)
get a couple bags of salt (dump in if no conflict with the stain actions taking so far)
see if that SWG actually works fine and cooks up chlorine slowly to raise it back up
await arrival of MA delivery pole tool.
Tackle the stubborn stains directly with that
keep balancing out PH as I do that.
if it works, collapse near the pool and get sunburned without even swimming in it?
Fc has been pretty much zero for the last 48. Should i go ahead and add some polyquat. I picked some suncoast brand poly 60 from pap, their version of jacks srain kit. And their version of one of the jacks sequesrrants...
Feeling pool stored for about 60 bucks worth...
Heres the sequesrrant i got. It actuallt says made by jacks
https://m.pinchapenny.com/product/suncoast-chemicals-ultimate-metal-control-plus?s=116
This is the poly i got. I kinda bought this on a whim. Its 60% chems. Is this the right stuff for algaecide and would it make sense to add it at this point? I asked for polyquat 60 and the lady was like im gonna be honest...i have no idea what you're talking about. I said metal free algaecide and shes like oh yeah ok here. And i look3d at it and saw the 60% ingredients bit couldn't remember if this was the right stuff
https://m.pinchapenny.com/product/all-in-one-algaecide
Its funny that pap has a store brand version of jacks stuff made by jack.
I usually never go to pap but the last experience at leslies really annoyed me feom wanting to go back there
Feeling pool stored for about 60 bucks worth...
Heres the sequesrrant i got. It actuallt says made by jacks
https://m.pinchapenny.com/product/suncoast-chemicals-ultimate-metal-control-plus?s=116
This is the poly i got. I kinda bought this on a whim. Its 60% chems. Is this the right stuff for algaecide and would it make sense to add it at this point? I asked for polyquat 60 and the lady was like im gonna be honest...i have no idea what you're talking about. I said metal free algaecide and shes like oh yeah ok here. And i look3d at it and saw the 60% ingredients bit couldn't remember if this was the right stuff
https://m.pinchapenny.com/product/all-in-one-algaecide
Its funny that pap has a store brand version of jacks stuff made by jack.
I usually never go to pap but the last experience at leslies really annoyed me feom wanting to go back there
Conrirmed the poly was the right stuff. Dumped in half a bottle. Thst sequestrant is the same as jacks purple stuff. Dumped that whole bottle in. Before i did either of these i added salt to bring it up to level. Ph is rral low so im gonna let all that circulate a bit then gonna add some borax to level out the ph although super acid is prob helping lighten stains.
Sounds to me like you are doing fine. I would like to see if you have taken pictures along the way. Especially the last few days. It's amazing how a few pictures can make the changes easier to see.
I'll take some pics tomorrow to try to get the same light.
I tried to use the before pictures of the stain but just light differences were difficult to tell an imporovement. imagine me standing by a pool eyes darting back and forth between my phone and the pool trying to figure out if I can tell a difference and then my eyes crossing.
I also tossed in a generic creepy crawly because I love auto vacs
I tried to use the before pictures of the stain but just light differences were difficult to tell an imporovement. imagine me standing by a pool eyes darting back and forth between my phone and the pool trying to figure out if I can tell a difference and then my eyes crossing.
I also tossed in a generic creepy crawly because I love auto vacs
Sounds like you are cross eyed from staring at your stains! 
LOL! Good luck with the sunburn! Glad you are making some progress. 
LOL! Good luck with the sunburn! Glad you are making some progress. Should i trust leslies and pinch a penny salt reading. I went to both stores today to get a salt reading because i dont have a salt test and wanted to check on and calibrate the aqua rite reading. They came within 50 ppm of each other and the number made sense with what i was expecting. I ordered some salt strips from amazon also but they wont get here for a while.
Is it safe to assume their readings are right. They both had the same little machine to test with.
Is it safe to assume their readings are right. They both had the same little machine to test with.