Dropping an Intex into a hill....the saga begins

[rckseattle]

Hey all just wanted to give my latest update and as usual ask a couple more questions of the resident experts. I have started putting the posts in as you can see from the pictures. Today I am getting another load of gravel delivered and there will be much spreading and compacting taking place over the next 24 hours. After that I will be setting the last posts and then starting to build the walls. I do have a question about drainage. It has been mentioned a couple of times, I think @kimkats mentioned saving some money for gravel for drainage. I am mostly just making this whole thing up as I go...I have a general plan and know what I need to do but am a little light on specifics and details. I know I need drainage and I was hoping to try to accomplish a few things.

What would you all recommend as far as drainage for the pool? I am thinking obviously something on the other side of the retaining wall but would that ditch/drain system need to be all the way around the pool or should it just be a line in back where the high side of the hill is and then run it down one side or the other and out the back of my yard? There is a city wastewater drain out that way. it has been raining quite a bit here lately (shocking I know) and the area that is all the way at the bottom of my hill along the fence line with my neighbor has become essentially quicksand. My guess is that is because their is nothing providing any drainage for that area as there is a footing underneath the fence and my neighbors yard is about 2' lower than mine so it is essentially a retaining wall in its own right. So I would like to put a french drain in that area.

Also the downspout in the corner of my house near the back garage door just drains right onto the ground and the ground is sloped pretty decent in that area so I thought I might remedy that by putting in an underground drain for that gutter system and downspout to discharge into. So my big idea was to somehow tie all of these systems together but Im a little unsure of exactly how to go about that especiallty since all these different areas are at very different elevations.

Does anyone have a good resource you could point me to so I could get a decent introduction into how these different systems work and things I need to keep in mind or look out for when planning this thing?

As usual I appreciate all of your feedback everyone, thanks!

 

[Mdragger88]

Hey all just wanted to give my latest update and as usual ask a couple more questions of the resident experts. I have started putting the posts in as you can see from the pictures. Today I am getting another load of gravel delivered and there will be much spreading and compacting taking place over the next 24 hours. After that I will be setting the last posts and then starting to build the walls. I do have a question about drainage. It has been mentioned a couple of times, I think @kimkats mentioned saving some money for gravel for drainage. I am mostly just making this whole thing up as I go...I have a general plan and know what I need to do but am a little light on specifics and details. I know I need drainage and I was hoping to try to accomplish a few things.

What would you all recommend as far as drainage for the pool? I am thinking obviously something on the other side of the retaining wall but would that ditch/drain system need to be all the way around the pool or should it just be a line in back where the high side of the hill is and then run it down one side or the other and out the back of my yard? There is a city wastewater drain out that way. it has been raining quite a bit here lately (shocking I know) and the area that is all the way at the bottom of my hill along the fence line with my neighbor has become essentially quicksand. My guess is that is because their is nothing providing any drainage for that area as there is a footing underneath the fence and my neighbors yard is about 2' lower than mine so it is essentially a retaining wall in its own right. So I would like to put a french drain in that area.

Also the downspout in the corner of my house near the back garage door just drains right onto the ground and the ground is sloped pretty decent in that area so I thought I might remedy that by putting in an underground drain for that gutter system and downspout to discharge into. So my big idea was to somehow tie all of these systems together but Im a little unsure of exactly how to go about that especiallty since all these different areas are at very different elevations.

Does anyone have a good resource you could point me to so I could get a decent introduction into how these different systems work and things I need to keep in mind or look out for when planning this thing?

As usual I appreciate all of your feedback everyone, thanks!

There’s a guy on YouTube w/ alot of info- Apple drains.

 

[Newdude]

As usual I appreciate all of your feedback everyone

I'd like to mention how much sturdier these pics look from the first round. You'd park 30 of your Toyota 4runners there and not blink. Nor would anyone downhill.

Well. Done.

 

[kimkats]

Think about how much rain you get with a big rain event. Now think how big the drain would need to be if you tied it all together from several areas to one or two. Think ahead tomake sure no one gets flooded out. I do like your idea of the drain by your neighbors yard.

 

[phonedave]

Time for me to give my standard extremely brief lesson in civil engineering.

The issue with compacting fill, of any kind, is that there is a sweet spot of moisture content where it will compact to its maximum density. If the soil is not at that moisture content, you can compact it until the cows come home, and it will still settle once it gets to that water content. Some soils are more forgiving. You can get 95% maximum compaction (what you usually shoot for) over a wide range of moisture content. Other soils are a lot less forgiving, and have to be really close to the correct moisture content. So how do you know this magic water content? You take your multiple soil samples to the lab, and you run Proctor tests on them (you can do it in field too, but it is not exactly fun), so you can develop what is call a family of Proctor curves. Then when compacting in the field, you do in situ compaction testing, either by using an Ottawa Sand Cone, or a Nuclear Soil Densometer. (I used to do this for a living many many years ago). Clearly your average homeowner with a Home Depot Rental plate compactor is not going to do this, so that is why we say you cannot use fill. You *could* if you hired an engineer, and an earthworks contractor that knows how to work with fill for foundations, but that is not a cheap route.

If you need to fill in a bit (which it sounds like you do) you can get something called Quarry Process, QP, Crusher Run, DGA, or Densely Graded Aggregate, depending on what neck of the woods you live in and what the locals call it. It is a blend of 3/4" stone down to rock dust (and everything in between - hence the Densely Graded part), Crusher Run is the "run of the crusher" when they run the rock at the quarry through the crusher, it's not "Crush and Run". Anyway, it is a VERY forgiving material with a very flat Proctor curve (meaning you don't have to super dial in the moisture content). #57 stone is clean stone that passes a #57 sieve. It's about 1" in diameter with no fines. It is great for drainage, or gravel drives, but not really the best for under a pool.

Also, as far as Apple Drains is concerned. I am actually familiar with his videos. Before you do anything he says, check with your local municipality about your local codes. Most of the stuff he does in his videos would get you a hefty fine and a lot of re-work in my town. I'm not saying what he does is wrong, but many towns have strict laws about curb cuts, daylighting drainage, permeable / impermeable coverage, and stormwater impoundment/runoff requirements - especially if you live over an aquifer.

 

[Mdragger88]

Time for me to give my standard extremely brief lesson in civil engineering.

The issue with compacting fill, of any kind, is that there is a sweet spot of moisture content where it will compact to its maximum density. If the soil is not at that moisture content, you can compact it until the cows come home, and it will still settle once it gets to that water content. Some soils are more forgiving. You can get 95% maximum compaction (what you usually shoot for) over a wide range of moisture content. Other soils are a lot less forgiving, and have to be really close to the correct moisture content. So how do you know this magic water content? You take your multiple soil samples to the lab, and you run Proctor tests on them (you can do it in field too, but it is not exactly fun), so you can develop what is call a family of Proctor curves. Then when compacting in the field, you do in situ compaction testing, either by using an Ottawa Sand Cone, or a Nuclear Soil Densometer. (I used to do this for a living many many years ago). Clearly your average homeowner with a Home Depot Rental plate compactor is not going to do this, so that is why we say you cannot use fill. You *could* if you hired an engineer, and an earthworks contractor that knows how to work with fill for foundations, but that is not a cheap route.

If you need to fill in a bit (which it sounds like you do) you can get something called Quarry Process, QP, Crusher Run, DGA, or Densely Graded Aggregate, depending on what neck of the woods you live in and what the locals call it. It is a blend of 3/4" stone down to rock dust (and everything in between - hence the Densely Graded part), Crusher Run is the "run of the crusher" when they run the rock at the quarry through the crusher, it's not "Crush and Run". Anyway, it is a VERY forgiving material with a very flat Proctor curve (meaning you don't have to super dial in the moisture content). #57 stone is clean stone that passes a #57 sieve. It's about 1" in diameter with no fines. It is great for drainage, or gravel drives, but not really the best for under a pool.

Also, as far as Apple Drains is concerned. I am actually familiar with his videos. Before you do anything he says, check with your local municipality about your local codes. Most of the stuff he does in his videos would get you a hefty fine and a lot of re-work in my town. I'm not saying what he does is wrong, but many towns have strict laws about curb cuts, daylighting drainage, permeable / impermeable coverage, and stormwater impoundment/runoff requirements - especially if you live over an aquifer.

Good advice about the drains - I live in the boonies in the county with almost no oversight for things like that & have a large property so most of what i may need to do only effects other parts of my property.

 

[phonedave]

Good advice about the drains - I live in the boonies in the county with almost no oversight for things like that & have a large property so most of what i may need to do only effects other parts of my property.

I am on a 1/2 acre lot (which is the minimum size in my town) and I get a LOT of standing water (they filled this area in with a clay/sand/silt when the converted it from farms to residential). I would love to be able to move some of this water off of my property into the street, but that is not allowed here, mainly for two reasons. We have two pretty large rivers in town - the Rockaway River and the Passaic River. When we get heavy rains, they flood. So much so that the bridge down the road from my house sometimes is closed, or about a mile down the road the street I live on is under water. The more runoff your get, the more flooding you get. Impoundment keeps the water in the soil and alleviates the flooding.

Also, almost 100% of my town is on wells. I would say 60% of the town has private wells. The other 40% are feed from our township water supply, which comes from municipal wells. Much of our town is a recharge area for the Towaco Valley Aquifer, which is what all of our wells draw out of. They want rain to recharge the aquifer, not run off into the rivers.

We have requirements on the amount of our property that can be covered by impermeable surfaces. If you have too much covered, you have to build a system (pond, underground manifolds, etc.) to retain the storm water and let it percolate into the ground.

In many suburban areas, these laws are becoming much more prevalent, as municipalities begin to understand the impacts of storm water management.

It is great if you have a large enough property where you can just move water from one area to an other - I wish I did. I found Apple Drains videos when I was looking for ways to get rid of the temporary lake I get when it rains hard, but all of his stuff was just not going to work around here.