"Don't use bleach in your pool"...

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tfpusername

tfpusername

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2017
119
Las Vegas
I discovered TFP when I started taking care of my pool years ago, and you guys said it was safe to use bleach from the grocery store (regular sodium hypochlorite, non scented, non splashless) for balancing the chlorine levels. Been using it for years, and it seems to be working fine.

Today at the checkout, the girl apparently runs a pool cleaning service, and told me NOT to do this. She said bleach will cause my "calcium hardness" (assume that's the same as Total Hardness?) levels to skyrocket...

Sure enough, while I've never had trouble balancing the chlorine or PH, my TH has been high for years (well above 500ppm), but I just assumed that was due to the hard water here in Vegas.

So two questions...

1.) Is she right?

and

2.) What are the long term dangers of high TH levels? Is it possible they have been the cause of these little brown spots...

Little brown rust spots on fiberglass pool...

A year ago I noticed some little brown spots (half a penny size) at the bottom corner of my deep end (assuming they are rust?). I have been keeping the chemical balance perfect these last several months (chlorine, ph, etc...), and haven't noticed any new spots, until today. There is one new spot...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks for any help!
 
No, she’s not right. Any form of chlorine except gas increases TDS by adding salt, but only cal-hypo adds hardness.

Try a vitamin C tablet on the spots. Often you get those spots when a small screw falls in the pool.
 
That's pretty impressive, since sodium hypochlorite has -zero- calcium in it. Even more impressive is that the powdered chlorine she almost certainly would suggest you use instead would likely be calcium hypochlorite, which has -lots- of calcium in it.

I mean, I tend to have a pretty low opinion of your typical pool service professional but this one takes the cake!

Also Calcium Hardness is not the same as Total Hardness, but a component of it. We don't test for Total Hardness in general and the test in the k-2006 is a Calcium Hardness test. What are you using to test your water?
 
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Thanks figured she was wrong...

I tested my CH using my Taylor test kit a while back and it was nearly 1000. I'll test again but I assume it's still super high. I was told the only way to lower it was to drain the pool and refill with softened water...

So what are the long term dangers of having CH that high? I guess I've noticed a few more of those brown 'rust' spots (not rust, tried Vit C), but only in the deep end. And maybe some slight brown/dirt/grime, but other than that the chlorine/PH have been easy to maintain and the water seems clear.
 
tfpusername said:
I discovered TFP when I started taking care of my pool years ago, and you guys said it was safe to use bleach from the grocery store (regular sodium hypochlorite, non scented, non splashless) for balancing the chlorine levels. Been using it for years, and it seems to be working fine.

Today at the checkout, the girl apparently runs a pool cleaning service, and told me NOT to do this. She said bleach will cause my "calcium hardness" (assume that's the same as Total Hardness?) levels to skyrocket...

Sure enough, while I've never had trouble balancing the chlorine or PH, my TH has been high for years (well above 500ppm), but I just assumed that was due to the hard water here in Vegas.

So two questions...

1.) Is she right?

and

2.) What are the long term dangers of high TH levels? Is it possible they have been the cause of these little brown spots...

Little brown rust spots on fiberglass pool...

A year ago I noticed some little brown spots (half a penny size) at the bottom corner of my deep end (assuming they are rust?). I have been keeping the chemical balance perfect these last several months (chlorine, ph, etc...), and haven't noticed any new spots, until today. There is one new spot...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks for any help!
Click to expand...
......liquid bleach, if you’re referring to sodium hypochlorite, raises pH, and high pH can Drive Calcium out of solution. pH, water temp, CH, and TA, can provide calcium a HaPpY home, OR NOT. if your water is over saturation, calcium will fall out. If your grocery store gal Is saying LC INCREASES CALCIUM -Well .... just smile and be glad She’s not in charge of your pool care .
 
tfp username,
test your tap water for CH. Every time you top off teh pool from evaporation, however much CH in your tap water goes into the pool. Most likely given your location, that your tap water is the source of it. Unless you introduced that CH using Cal Hype, or CH up (calcium chloride), there isnt much else that can cause your CH to rise.

High CH can definitely cause calcium scaling, but that depends on your pH too.

And you did hear right about the only way to lower it is by drain and refill.
 
tfpusername said:
I was told the only way to lower it was to drain the pool and refill with softened water...
Click to expand...
I assume you have LVVWD water from Lake Mead. So the CH of your tap water is ~250 ppm. With evaporation, your CH will rise and be above 800 ppm in less than two years (only takes 16 months here in Laughlin).

You should do a water exchange. No need to use softened water to fill. If you have softened water available you could use that for fill water.

High CH will lead to scale. Do you have scale build up on your water line?

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
I think you're right about the tap water I've been adding over the years being the culprit.

No scale build up on the water line, but there is some brown/dirt/scale along the floor/corners that has gotten progressively worse over the last two years. My dolphin robot isn't strong enough to scrub it off anymore.

So I guess it's time to look into draining/refilling, but refilling with tap water seems like a bad idea. So I need to rent some kind of water softener or hire a pool professional to do it?

*BTW how urgent is this (1000 TH)? The scale is very subtle, and the water is otherwise sparkly clean. Do I need to do this drain/refill asap or risk perma damaging the pool (fiberglass)?
 
beautifulpool said:
liquid bleach, if you’re referring to sodium hypochlorite, raises pH
Click to expand...

Bleach seems to be costing me 2x as much as tablets?

If I understand correctly when liquid chlorine goes into the water, it actually won't raise the pH as much as you might think. Liquid chlorine's reactions create byproducts of both high pH (Sodium hydroxide) and low pH (Hydrochloric acid), which neutralize each other. The net pH change should be...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 

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tfpusername said:
*BTW how urgent is this (1000 TH)? The scale is very subtle, and the water is otherwise sparkly clean. Do I need to do this drain/refill asap or risk perma damaging the pool (fiberglass)?
Click to expand...
I do not see that the scale will damage your fiberglass pool. It will be difficult to remove, but that is all.

I was not very good in my explanation above. You can exchange your water to fresh using the straight tap water. That will reduce your CH level to near 300 ppm. I would not recommend draining the pool as draining a FB pool has many risks, even here in the desert.

Once you have fresh water, then the makeup water you use to refill the pool from evaporation could come from a water softener, if you have one.

There are Reverse Osmosis services in some cities that will process your existing water to remove the calcium in it. It is way more expensive than your tap water, especially in S Nevada with our fairly cheap water rates.
 
mknauss said:
I was not very good in my explanation above. You can exchange your water to fresh using the straight tap water. That will reduce your CH level to near 300 ppm. I would not recommend draining the pool as draining a FB pool has many risks, even here in the desert.
Click to expand...

Hmm so by exchange you mean, pump out the current water while simultaneously adding new tap water? That seems less efficient than just completely draining and refilling. I know a full drain on fiberglass can be risky, but this pool WAS drained before (sat empty for years actually), and never had any cracks/issues.

And then for the future top offs, we don't have a water softener, do they sell 'small'/portable water softeners/filters just for refilling pools? Or do we need to invest in a whole house water softener?
 
Read Draining - Further Reading
Up to you how you want to exchange your water.

You would have to install a water softener.
I do not have a water softener. I do not find it that big a deal to manage the CSI and then exchange the water to fresh every 16 months or so. Our water is pretty cheap. Costs me about $50, including acid, CYA, and salt, to completely exchange the water in my pool.
 
I was thinking a full drain would make it easier to scrub down some of the scale build up (and maybe finally diagnose those little brown spots in the deep end). But you still suggest that "no drain water exchange" eh?

Although, without a house water softener, do you really think that will work if I refill with just tap water? I guess the idea is that even though the CH in my tap water is high, it's the calcium left behind after evaporation that is really messing with the levels?

And do you have any recommendations on pumps to use? I wonder how much a pool service company would charge to rent something (or maybe do the whole process for me)?
 
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