Do I have a leak in my spa, or just a bad check valve?

[zmt]

Mods, feel free to move this to a more appropriate place.

So for the past few years, I've had a slow (although how slow varies with things like the season) leak in my spa. It's a shared equipment setup with the pool, and while there are check valves on the return side, the way the plumbing is set up, I don't see how they could be the source of the problem even if they're bad. First off, a picture of my valve setup to assist you in... assisting me:

This is how my pool operates 99% of the time. Pool config (so the spa side of the inlet and return are closed by the valves) and waterfall valve closed. The waterfall is a return to the bottom of the spa, pretty standard stuff. In this configuration, I still get water loss in the spa. So question 1 is: If the check valves were bad, wouldn't the 2 way waterfall valve and the spa diverter both also have to be bad for water to back fill into the pool?

That, along with the fact that the water level seems to settle just below the return jets on the spa leads me to believe it's a leak in that part of the system somewhere. Question 2 is then: What other self diagnosing can I do to narrow down whether or not it's actually a leak? and finally, question 3: If it *is* a leak, is there anything I should look for/look out for when selecting someone to do the locating and repair? Or is it DIY-able (current skill level is - I do all my own maintenance, and I just replaced the timer/controller myself and plan on installing the SWG cell myself too)?
Our heater is currently out of service (look for a thread on that soon!) and with my new controller cycling the spa and pool modes every 30 mins for freeze protection, I guess it's finally time to tackle some deferred maintenance so we can get a bit more enjoyment out of our pool!

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!

So if there is a leak in the spa, then your overall system is losing water? Are you adding more water to your pool than normal? I assume you run water through the spa daily to maintain its sanitation so it fills back up each day.

Otherwise I doubt you could have leaks through multiple items (check, valve, etc).

Take care.

 

[Jimrahbe]

zmt,

I agree with your troubleshooting findings... It appears to me that if you do not have a leak, that both the 'Spa' check valve and Return 3-way valve would have to be leaking...

It also seems that if the problem was on the waterfall side, that the Spa would drain well below the returns..

If your Spa is like most, it is surrounded by a mile and a half of decking, so it would be pretty difficult to notice (or fix) a leaking pipe...

If this were my pool I would want to make sure that I eliminated any possible easy fixes before looking for a hard to repair pipe leak.

In your particular plumbing set up, the 'Spa' check valve could have been bad for a long time without you knowing it, because of the 3-way valve. So it is certainly possible for both valves to now be leaking. I would rebuild both valves, just because it is easy and relatively cheap DIY project. You can buy rebuild kits for both valves...

I would also want to make sure that the Return actuator was fully turning the Jandy valve all the way off and not just 99% of the way...

I would also put the system into the Spa mode and let it run for a day with the heater off. In the Spa mode, water is sucked from the Spa and returned to the Spa.. So, if the Return pipes are leaking somewhere, the level should continue to drop.. If the level in the Spa mode stays the same over a 24 hour period, I would have to assume you have no leak...

If you do have a leak, then I would but stoppers in all of the return pipes and see if the leak stopped.

For me anyway, this would be when I'd have to call in an expert leak finder..

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Welcome to the forum!

So if there is a leak in the spa, then your overall system is losing water? Are you adding more water to your pool than normal? I assume you run water through the spa daily to maintain its sanitation so it fills back up each day.

Otherwise I doubt you could have leaks through multiple items (check, valve, etc).

Take care.

Mknauss is leaning the right way..
this sounds like a low hanging fruit problem. (Barring some oddities)

My first question is your spa raised above pool level? Your symptoms lead me to presume so.

 

[zmt]

So if there is a leak in the spa, then your overall system is losing water? Are you adding more water to your pool than normal? I assume you run water through the spa daily to maintain its sanitation so it fills back up each day.

We don't regularly run the spa, mostly because we suspect there's a leak! We plop in a tab floater in the summer, and fill/run it every few days, but it doesn't get regular turnover. As a result, no, the pool itself doesn't lose more water than normal.

If your Spa is like most, it is surrounded by a mile and a half of decking, so it would be pretty difficult to notice (or fix) a leaking pipe...

In my case, about half the pool/spa is undecked. We have some bushes that have become overgrown and I'm in the middle of pulling out (the leak started before any of this work) so I'm going to keep my eye out for any obvious signs but haven't seen anything yet.

I agree about trying the easy stuff too. The check valves haven't been rebuilt since we bought the house about 6 years ago, and I'm guessing not before that either. It's probably worth the investment regardless. I think the actuator is working correctly, but again, it's worth being thorough.

Good call about running it in spa mode for an extended period. Now's the time to do it as the heater is currently out of commission anyway.

Also good advice about stoppers. Do they sell some for standard return jets? Are there any household items I can use? I can check amazon, but you guys have all been around the block and might have suggestions I wouldn't think of. I think this is the easiest next step because I assume the leak, if there is one, is part of the spa return circuit since the loss seems to slow/stop after it drops below the jets (and yes, that could still be because of a bad check valve and valve combo, but I would still know which ones at that point).

Mknauss is leaning the right way..
this sounds like a low hanging fruit problem. (Barring some oddities)

My first question is your spa raised above pool level? Your symptoms lead me to presume so.

Yes, spa is elevated slightly. I would think given the amount of water I'm losing in the spa that if it was drainback I would notice the equivalent rise (not 1 to 1 obv, but still noticeable) in the pool level, and I'm not seeing it.

 

[mas985]

Yes, spa is elevated slightly. I would think given the amount of water I'm losing in the spa that if it was drainback I would notice the equivalent rise (not 1 to 1 obv, but still noticeable) in the pool level, and I'm not seeing it.

It would be proportional to the surface area of each so more like 10:1. How much does the spa drain?

 

[zmt]

It would be proportional to the surface area of each so more like 10:1. How much does the spa drain?

Right, I was just expressing that I don't expect the pool to fill up as much. I would guess when it's bad we lose up to 4" in the spa over 24 hrs? I've seen it get down to the jets from the bottom of the tiles in 2 days.

 

[mas985]

So you don't see the pool rise at all?

When the spa fills up again (from the pool), do you see the pool level fall in height?

If you don't see the later, you are just not noticing the former. If you see the later but not the former, that would probably mean you have a leak to the outside the plumbing.

 

[zmt]

So you don't see the pool rise at all?

When the spa fills up again (from the pool), do you see the pool level fall in height?

Yes, there's an obvious drop when I refill the spa. Just one more point in the "leak, not check valve" column.

I'm gonna look for a way to stop/plug the spa return jets. Anyone have a recommendation for plugs?

 

[mas985]

Almost any hardware store should have a rubber pipe plug with a wingnut.

 

[Jimrahbe]

zmt,

Did you fail the 24 hour Spa only test??? Plugging the returns by itself will not tell you if the problem is in the pipes or the valves...

Jim R.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Spa light?

 

[zmt]

Did you fail the 24 hour Spa only test??? Plugging the returns by itself will not tell you if the problem is in the pipes or the valves...

Jim R.

No, not yet. I'm gonna fill it up and hopefully test it out this weekend. Plugging would isolate it to either the return plumbing or the waterfall plumbing though. I strongly believe it's somewhere in the spa return though as the level never drops below the jets, at least not any faster than normal evaporation amounts.

 

[Jimrahbe]

zmt,

I would run the 24 hours spa test first.. if that passes that means there are no leaking pipes and the problem has to be in the valves.

Assuming the 24 hour test passes, then if you plugged the returns and it did not leak that would isolate the problem to the return side valves and not the waterfall side valves..

Thanks,

Jim R.