Do I have a broken inground pipe?

[Golfman132]

Hi all,
I’m new to the group but hoping an expert might assist. I have been servicing my old unground pool in NY for over 15 years. The pool is about 30 years old. But this problem is really strange. I take great care blowing out lines and then a few gallons of pool antifreeze as extra protection. I went to open the pool today and couldn’t get the 2017 Hayward pump to prime. I kept pouring multiple 5 gallon containers into the lines at the pump side as usual but no joy. Water is at least an inch over both skimmers - all lines properly opened. I was able to force some air/water from the pool side skimmer to the pump side as a test. The pool is not losing any water though lines - of course pump is not on.

I then decided to attach a small submersible pump from the pool to garden hose and put the hose in the pump side of the pool side I take lines (have a 2 year old jandy diverter and tried both lines/sides) to see if I could fill lines and/or see any softness in the ground over the ~40 feet of piping - ran the water from the pool through the garden hose for a few hours - lines would not fill and no softness in the ground that I could find. The water remains full in both skimmers but no water movement/backflow at all in the skimmers - not even a flutter of floating leaves in skimmers.
Help?? Thanks!
Chris

 

[mas985]

I would check the pump lid gasket for problems. If you find no cracks, then use some pool lube to heal seal it. You are tightening the lid before running correct?

 

[Golfman132]

Hi,
Thanks so much for the note. Yes- it’s all right - pump is only a few years old. I just can’t seem to get enough water in the pump side lines - beginning to think it may be a partial clog in the main drain but already tried blowing it out at the skimmer side. Other thoughts?


BTW, I did dig by the most likely place for a broken pipe where pipes are most shallow and rising to the pump equipment and everything seems solid there - no leaks with a hose running in the pump side.
Chris

 

[mas985]

I just can’t seem to get enough water in the pump side lines

I am not sure what that means. Plumbing from the pool is always under water level (except the pad for an above water pad) so it is always full.

When adding water to the pump basket, it will only fill to the bottom of the inlet pipe. Any more water will run out of the suction lines to the pool. Water seeks it's own level.

Most likely the problem is with the pump itself. If the seals and gaskets are in good condition, the impeller could be broken or clogged. When you first start the pump do you see churning in the pump basket?

 

[Golfman132]

Yes, there is a little movement in the bottom of the basket and some bubbles (but really no pressure) on the outlet jets on the pool sides but really no flow from the pool lines to the pump. Could it be a weak pump? It’s a 2017 Hayward. Any way to test power/pressure on the pump?The pressure gauge on the sand filter is showing zero as it isn’t filling enough to pressurize.

 

[mas985]

The gauge on the filter is showing that there is no flow rate. The pump needs to prime first before pressure shows on the filter.

Pump's fail to prime primarily because of air leaks and blockage. Have you inspected the impeller for blockage?

 

[Golfman132]

Thanks - yes, understood. The impeller has been inspected - no debris and spins freely. Ive checked all parts and all fittings seem tight.

 

[mas985]

Did you remove the housing from the motor to inspect the impeller vanes?

 

[Golfman132]

Thanks. I have not taken the motor apart to inspect the veins. I put a finger in the circular impeller (after shutting all power) to check for any obstruction and it seemed clear. The basket has not come out of the filter at any time when I was trying to prime. Though I will I take the motor off tomorrow and inspect just to be sure. Again, thanks for continued advice.

 

[mas985]

Again, the problem is likely a blockage or an air leak. Since you were able to get water from the skimmer to the pump basket, that is likely to be open. So I think it would be worthwhile to inspect the impeller vanes to rule that out.

 

[Golfman132]

Hi,
Before I took apart the motor, I kept thinking air leaks and as I could see no water egress out of the pool or in the ground so I thought more about above ground air leaks. I saw a post about using shaving cream on joints so I decided to try it.

I used Barbisol on all above ground joints and it worked! There was a decent size crack on the bottom of the threaded inlet on the pump - must have had a frost heave. I couldn’t see anything on top but the shaving cream was immediately sucked into the pump on bottom when the pump was switched on. I was able carefully cut out the threaded breakage on the pump inlet and I used unions some years back so relatively light work to take apart and replace the small amount of piping - total cost $10 for fresh PVC pipe dope and fitting! Pump primed as usual and no leaks. Again, thanks so much to you and the group!
Chris

 

[mas985]

 

[1Sammy]

I was LOST on the explanation of the problem on this one guys . Now i am wondering why after pouring water into the basket with a 5 gallon bucket that none leaked from under that fitting.

 

[Golfman132]

I was LOST on the explanation of the problem on this one guys . Now i am wondering why after pouring water into the basket with a 5 gallon bucket that none leaked from under that fitting.

It was a hairline crack - not enough to see water come through the pipe as there wasn’t any pressure when filling but plenty to allow the air and loss of suction when trying to prime the pump under pressure. Also, I wasn’t looking for a crack there and some water overflowed the pump basket being a 5 gallon bucket as I tried to fully fill the line. I also may have missed it already being wet. Again, thanks.