Did my pool guy sell me the correct heater?

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In2b8er

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Sep 5, 2017
11
Detroit MI
So I had a pool guy come and replace the the old pool heater that was on the pool that came with the house. The pool is roughly 27,000 gallons gunite pool with a surface area of about 935sqft. When I initially talked to him he told me he would install a 350k BTU gas heater. Then when he showed up with the heater he brought a Raypak 266 with him, which is a 266k BTU heater. I asked him why the bait and switch and he said I made a mistake and thought this is what you already had on the pool, however he said as you can see you have a 266k BTU heater and this is what I'm replacing it with. He went on to explain how you can't just put in a larger heater and should replace older parts with newer parts of the same capacity. My wife set this all so I had no time to properly research all of this and since this is the type of heater I already had I got him to knock down a few hundred dollars because he was putting in a less powerful heater and that's it.

So now after reading around online it seems like I should have gotten the 350K BTU heater because it seems like the correct size heater for us and also since I only use it intermittently a more powerful heater will heat the pool quicker. We only use the pool on the weekends and it's taking a few days for the pool heater to warm up the pool. I'm in Michigan this weekend it's been sunny and in the high 70's low 80's during the day and low 60's at night. I'm trying to warm up the pool to 80 degrees but it seems like it's only going up by 1 degree an hour if not less. My pool pump runs only 8 hrs a day and thus the heater only runs 8 hrs a day from 1pm till 9pm. I did turn everything on at 9am today in hopes that I would be able to go swimming this late afternoon but the pool is still too cold.

I'm new to all this so my questions to the forum are: 1) Did the original pool owners undersized their pool heater and thus this guy undersized the replacement heater? 2) Should I have gotten the more powerful heater because of the way I use my pool I.e. Only on the weekends and I don't want to run the heater all the time just so the pool is ready on the weekends. 3) should I continue to run the pool pump and heater only 8 hrs a day or on the weekends when I want to swim I should run it 24hrs a day so that it's always ready and then just run the pool pump by itself for 8 hrs a day during the week? 4) how do you guys use your pool heaters? 24hrs a day or only for 8 hrs a day but everyday? Any other suggestions or recommendations are welcome.

Thank you you for taking time to answer my questions.
 
The builder is correct you can't simply replace a small gas heater with a bigger one. Your current heater is likely sized the way it is for one of two reasons.

1) the meter/line to the street can't accommodate the additional gas flow needed for a larger heater.

2) the gas line to your pool heater is too small to allow a bigger heater to be installed.

Unless you know the answer to both those problems I would keep the heater the same size.

That heater is big enough to heat your pool it just won't do it as quickly.
 
I have a 260,000 btu heater on a 15,000 gallon pool. I wouldn't want to go any smaller. Like everyone mentioned above check the size of your gas line going to the heater to see if it will handle the larger heater without being replaced. Most utilities will upgrade the gas meter for free if you need it but replacing the gas line from the meter to the heater can get very expensive.
 
In2b8er said:
My pool pump runs only 8 hrs a day and thus the heater only runs 8 hrs a day from 1pm till 9pm.
Click to expand...

Ditto what they said, and this comment also caught my eye.

If you are struggling to make temp in the pool, turning it off when it is losing the most heat is counterproductive to your cause. Let it run and get up to temp. Also, are you covering the pool? That makes a HUGE difference. Otherwise, you can literally see the heat coming off of the water at night - that steam just looks like dollar bills floating away.
 
Like others said, if you're not covering the pool at night especially this time of year in your location you're just wasting $ heating as you'll lose any gains you make overnight. If you are using a cover or going to buy one just run the pump/heater to get to your desired temperature and cover at night then you'll only need to run it for shorter period to get back up to your target temperature, the cover also really cuts down on evaporation.

Salty
 
Intb8r, I'm down the road from you in Grand Rapids and I just got out of my 90 degree pool...I have a Rayak266.
AND A COVER.

So, if you are limited by pipe size and run and meter (as i am...I have a very long run for my gas pipe) no worries, you can get there with the Raypak no problem.

However, there are a few considerations here in mich, where day/night temp differentials can be 30 or more degrees.

First off, until last year when I changed approach due to winter operation inside an air dome, I found it was cheaper to just thermostat the pool until about mid to late Sept. Meaning I just set it to 90 and let the heater worry about it. Now that I'm running year round, I do other things to reduce the summer gas bill, to offset my winter gas bill ;)

At 266k btu, your heater will cost you about $1.50 an hour in natural gas to run on full...that's assuming your pool is about 600 SF at 27k gallons and that you need a little over 200,000 btu and hour to get one degree, likely with a cover on nights like this week where it was down to 46 ;) (BTU input s different than actual due to efficiency rating.)

With a 20-30 degree differential, you'll likely lose .3 to .5 degrees an hour. So if you keep the heater off all week in shoulder season, lets assume you could lose at least 6-8 degrees a day due to night and am temps. So you could need to run the heater ...AND the pump, 30 hours on Friday to get up to temp...and then maintain.

If instead, you ran the heater 5 or 6 hours a day, used the cover, etc., you'd have always-hot-enough water for the same price (or cheaper as its easier to gain heat with warmer water) but you wouldn't be paying extra to run your pump more (if a single speed, 1.5 hp or higher, that's another .17 cent per kwh...)

What I've been doing this month with such cold nights the last few weeks is running it up to a bit over 90 from 3 am til 7 am when I get in and do physio. The I let it drop throughout the day for a bit cooler swim after work. Eg around 88. The only time I run my variable speed pump higher is from 3 am til 9 in tandem with the heater. The rest of the time I run it on low speed for chlorinator, with a rest after the sun goes down.

Hope that helps you get dialed in.

I should note that in terms of cost, remember that if you had that 350 btu in your case you might get another .5-.75 degrees an hour, but your hourly cost would be mor like $2.20. I'm not sure its "faster enough" to go to the trouble of upsizing your line or installing a million btu meter.

In Mich, your household heat, if gas, competes on the gas flow during shoulder season, which is why you'd likely need the up sized million btu meter. And starving a pool heater is bad news. A regular DTE meter is rated for 400,00 btu. So you really wouldn't have enough for as appliances and heaters with the larger pool heater unless your meter had already been upgraded. You can call DTE and ask them about it.
 
In2,

I guess I agree with most of the posts here. But I would have expected the heater suppliier to evaluate the options and the gas demand. What about 400k BTU or larger? You may have elected to have the larger meter installed even at the additional installation cost and you should have been the one making the decision. This isn't rocket science and they should have done the calculations for you then helped determine the installed cost for all your options. Your gas meter has a defined capacity, your house has a requirement, and your heater has a requirement. If you need a larger meter you should have had the option to understand that cost before they just showed up with a replacement. Sounds more like they just took the easy way out.

My $.02 and I hope it helps.

Chris
 
Thank you everyone for the replies. I just called my gas company to ask about my meter and main line and a representative will get back to me within 2 days. My brother ran into this problem with his pool heater and it cost him around $10,000 to upgrade the meter to a million BTU and the gas lines. He lives in NJ. so I will found out all of this info in a few days but if it's a significant amount of money to upgrade everything I'll just have to run the pump and heater for longer time.

As for other questions I am assuming when you guys mention pool cover, you mean a solar cover that floats on top of the pool? I am not currently using one but I did buy a 12mil cover that I will have to cut to size once it gets here.

Another question you guys asked was about the gas line that supplies the pool heater, to see if it can handle the BTU requirement? How do I tell how much it can supply? Is it simply by the diameter of the gas line? Mine is 1inch in diameter.

Lastly, I'm sure a proper pool company would assess the situation and give me all my options. However, this pool guy I'm using is kind of on the shady side. And I have to watch over him and question what he does. However, he charges about half as much as other pool companies and has been doing this for 20+ yrs. plus I feel like hooking up power lines and running pvc pipe isn't rocket science.

Ive never had a pool before this is just all new to me.

So to clarify, you guys are saying #1 absolutely must get and use a pool cover. #2 I might have to run my pool pump and heater for 24hrs or more before the day I want to go swimming, or run the pool pump and heater for 6 to 8 hrs everyday at a slightly lower temp and then crank it up for the days I want to go swimming?

Thanks again everyone.
 

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Yep when we say solar cover we mean the floating bubble cover.

For the gas Line to the pool you need to know the inside diameter of the pip and the length of pipe that is run. Then you plug those numbers into a handy chart like THIS one. When you say 1" pipe you need to know if that is inside diameter or outside diameter. A 3/4" pipe measures 1" on the outside. A 1" pipe measures 1.5" on the outside.

#1 Yes if you are paying to heat your pool you must use a cover or you are just wasting you money. A cover reduces heating cost 40-60%.

#2 With a gas heater you have the option to spot heat your pool prior to using it. For you this would likely take about 1 days notice with your setup but that depends on how warm the pool is to start with and what your goal is for desired temp. If you want to maintain the pool at a set temp see the answer to #1 and make it bold and underline it. 6-8 hours run time a day should be plenty to maintain the pool temp.
 
In2b8er said:
Thank you everyone for the replies. I just called my gas company to ask about my meter and main line and a representative will get back to me within 2 days. My brother ran into this problem with his pool heater and it cost him around $10,000 to upgrade the meter to a million BTU and the gas lines. He lives in NJ. so I will found out all of this info in a few days but if it's a significant amount of money to upgrade everything I'll just have to run the pump and heater for longer time.

As for other questions I am assuming when you guys mention pool cover, you mean a solar cover that floats on top of the pool? I am not currently using one but I did buy a 12mil cover that I will have to cut to size once it gets here.

Another question you guys asked was about the gas line that supplies the pool heater, to see if it can handle the BTU requirement? How do I tell how much it can supply? Is it simply by the diameter of the gas line? Mine is 1inch in diameter.

Lastly, I'm sure a proper pool company would assess the situation and give me all my options. However, this pool guy I'm using is kind of on the shady side. And I have to watch over him and question what he does. However, he charges about half as much as other pool companies and has been doing this for 20+ yrs. plus I feel like hooking up power lines and running pvc pipe isn't rocket science.

Ive never had a pool before this is just all new to me.

So to clarify, you guys are saying #1 absolutely must get and use a pool cover. #2 I might have to run my pool pump and heater for 24hrs or more before the day I want to go swimming, or run the pool pump and heater for 6 to 8 hrs everyday at a slightly lower temp and then crank it up for the days I want to go swimming?

Thanks again everyone.
Click to expand...

Gas line size doesn't matter as much as the pressure. My meter was only a 400k btu meter but they ran a high pressure line from the meter to the pool heater which enabled the meter to go up to 900k btus. They basically split off the line at the meter before it goes into the regulator and then ran it from there to the pool heater, where they installed another pressure regulator. High pressure lines allow them to install a smaller diameter gas line but still get the volume they need for the heater.

BTW: A pool that size should have been spec'd with a 400k btu heater. It is too big for anything else.

Also for me there was no charge for the meter upgrade.
 
The bottom line is this - you need to hire a QUALIFIED gas heater installer, not some random shady pool guy. When it comes to a gas heater and running gas lines, it's not rocket science BUT it requires someone with specific knowledge and training to do it right. I had over 200' of gas line run around my property. 150' of it is 2" diameter line. The plumber that installed it all was licensed to do gas work and his guys spent days making sure every fitting was leak proof and done right. When it comes to gas, you don't mess around.

As one of our other experts has said - "Cheap work is never quality work and quality work is never cheap."
 
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