Is there a specific code for transition from deep to shallow end for in ground gunite pools. I have a diving pool under construction with a very steep slope. I was reading something about the slope ratio being 1:3? (1 foot vertical: 3 foot horizontal). If my contractor has a 4 foot rise in just over 7 feet is there a way I can force him to redo it? He is refusing to fix it. It is also uneven and has a “speed bump” looking rise on one end.
Deep to shallow end transition ratio
- Thread starter Mboivin
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 52,882
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I agree with you that the profile of that floor is not desirable. The gunite crew did not do a quality job leveling and shaping the floor.
In general there are no pool design codes that apply to residential pools.
There are often local codes that apply to public pools. See section 807 in...
codes.iccsafe.org
In general there are no pool design codes that apply to residential pools.
There are often local codes that apply to public pools. See section 807 in...
2018 INTERNATIONAL SWIMMING POOL AND SPA CODE (ISPSC) | ICC DIGITAL CODES
ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.
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Toxophilite
Silver Supporter
ANSI/APSP/ICC-5 2011 (R2022) American National Standard for Residential Inground Swimming Pools
This standard applies to permanently installed residential inground swimming pools intended for noncommercial use as a swimming pool by not more than three owner families and their guests and exceeding 24 in. (61 cm) in water depth. EXCEPTION: Separate ponds, fountains, decorative water...
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The Pool & Hot Tub Alliance advances the common interests of the industry by providing education, industry leadership, legislative and regulatory advocacy, standards development, research and market growth to increase our members' professionalism, knowledge and profitability.
APSP 2013 Workmanship Guidelines and Practices
These workmanship guidelines are for dispute resolution for the construction, installation, remodeling, renovation, and warranty repair of inground residential swimming pools and permanently installed spas as required under the contract covering same. The requirements in this document supplement...
ANSI/APSP/ICC/NPC-12 2016 American National Standard for the Plastering of Swimming Pools and Spas
This standard covers the material and application for the plastering of cementitious finish coatings for in-ground swimming pools or other cementitious water-containment vessels (see Appendix). Except to the extent specified in the Standard, the terms specified by contractual agreement shall...
Swimming Pool and Spa Code 2018 of Phoenix
Chapter 8 Permanent Inground Residential Swimming Pools
About this chapter: Permanent inground residential swimming pools are regulated by Chapter 8. Where diving boards are present, this chapter provides information regarding the minimum diving water dimensions. Requirements for means of entry and exit, decks and circulation systems are provided. Special features of these pools such as beach entries, swimouts, diving rocks and architectural features are also regulated by this chapter.
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802.2 Structural Design
The structural design and materials shall be in accordance with the International Residential Code.
807.1.3 Deep End
The slope of the floor in the deep end, indicated in Figure 804.1 as Point B to Point D, shall not exceed a slope of 1 unit vertical in 3 units horizontal (33-percent slope).
Chapter 8 Permanent Inground Residential Swimming Pools
About this chapter: Permanent inground residential swimming pools are regulated by Chapter 8. Where diving boards are present, this chapter provides information regarding the minimum diving water dimensions. Requirements for means of entry and exit, decks and circulation systems are provided. Special features of these pools such as beach entries, swimouts, diving rocks and architectural features are also regulated by this chapter.
Phoenix Swimming Pool and Spa Code 2018 based on the International Swimming Pool and Spa Code 2018 (ISPSC 2018)
UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction
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Chapter 8 Permanent Inground Residential Swimming Pools: Permanent Inground Residential Swimming Pools, Phoenix Swimming Pool and Spa Code 2018 | UpCodes
UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction
up.codes
802.2 Structural Design
The structural design and materials shall be in accordance with the International Residential Code.
807.1.3 Deep End
The slope of the floor in the deep end, indicated in Figure 804.1 as Point B to Point D, shall not exceed a slope of 1 unit vertical in 3 units horizontal (33-percent slope).
3109.3.1 In-ground pools. In-ground pools shall be designed and constructed in conformance with ANSI/NSPI5 as listed in Section 3109.7
[A] 101.4.10 Swimming pools.
The provisions of the International Swimming Pool and Spa Code, as amended, shall apply to the construction of public and private swimming pools and spas.
This amendment recognizes administrative amendments are made to each of the reference codes.
It also recognizes the National Electrical Code, International Residential Code, and the International Swimming Pool and Spa Code as adopted reference codes.
[A] 101.4.10 Swimming pools.
The provisions of the International Swimming Pool and Spa Code, as amended, shall apply to the construction of public and private swimming pools and spas.
This amendment recognizes administrative amendments are made to each of the reference codes.
It also recognizes the National Electrical Code, International Residential Code, and the International Swimming Pool and Spa Code as adopted reference codes.
The inspector should fail the pool as not meeting code, which would require the builder to redo it to meet code.
Jaffles
Bronze Supporter
- May 4, 2022
- 150
- Pool Size
- 22500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron eQuilibrium EQ35
Have to admit it doesn't look the best, however in the builders defence there is an overall length of the pool, and desired depth he has to work with. From my experience when you dive from the deck you use us 10" hitting the water, then there is another 10 to 16' of glide.
How long and deep is your pool?
My pool is 29.5' and decided into 3 sections basically, shallow end of 4', deep end of 6.5', the slope is what it is.
If I dive from the shallow end I tend to follow 1' above the floor mostly to the deep end. Don't like to dive the other way as depth decreases.
Not a lawyer but imagine if "Diving Pool" is not mentioned on any part of the contract it may be hard to argue its not to code. Just a guess.
To redo it, is a pretty big job and not surprised the builder is not keen. Given the floor and walls are all wired together, I don't think its possible to reshape the floor under the steel reobar while its there. So to my mind the whole shell would have to be broken up, mesh removed and then reshaped. Hoping not top crack any of the plumbing in the process.
What a pain, and sorry to hear your experience as it should not be hard for the builder to ask " is this the shape you want" before going any further in the dig stage. Keep us up to date on how you go.
The city will usually require an engineering plan drawn by an engineer.
The plans should have top, side and front views including dimensions.
What do the plans show?
Have you contacted the designing engineer to see what they say?
Do the plans include a diving board?
The plans should have top, side and front views including dimensions.
What do the plans show?
Have you contacted the designing engineer to see what they say?
Do the plans include a diving board?
The contractor is refusing to provide the design plan. They starting digging before they had permit in Sept 2021. It sat out in elements with rebar shell from 10/5/21-8/22/22. They used an old standard Gunite reinforcement plan. The was date stamped 9/2014 did not have my name and address on it and engineer commission stamp showed commission expired in 2014. Of course now they refuse to provide me a copy of it since they took it from job site. (But I have photo of date time and commission stamp paper) The contractor has flat out refused to fix anything. It was shot without minimum ground clearance and pieces of rebar not secured. I initially filed a complaint with ROC about this. The inspector was buddies with contractor. He didn’t even look at plan which is still wrong to this day. My equipment is in wrong place on plan. I signed contract 8/2021. Contractor didn’t fix bent broken rebar, and ROC inspector dismissed complaint despite the pool plan being wrong, truly no minimum ground clearance and wall cave ins not being reinforced. The whole inspection was a joke. I am now requesting to speak with his supervisor. They shot the pool after a monsoon rain that destroyed it. The contractor was aware the work crew never came to prep pool for shotcrete. I told them it wasn’t ready. They insisted and I went ahead for fear they’d accuse me of contract breach. Now it’s worse because they didn’t fix it when issues were rebar, cave ins and ground clearance. They want to mortar it this way. They are not concerned with build only getting paid. I told them we can’t move forward until it is fixed. They are refusing and they have requested ROC inspection for “building confidence” program. No work has been done it since August 22,2022 when it was shot and I immediately pointed out problems. I tried to email design engineer but it failed. Came back as blocked. I did email him pictures of the pool prior to it being shot with all the rusted bent rebar and cave ins. He never responded. I think they all know it’s a mess but don’t want to fix it because of money. I am calling county on Monday to get my plans since contractor is refusing to provide them. I requested a different inspector for “building confidence” inspection. But no date for that. So again the pool is sitting in elements. I requested builder to cover it or protect it some way. They refuse. No one is doing their job. You are the first person who has offered any kind of help. Thank you. At this point I want the plans and to prepare evidence for a construction attorney. But I am not rich and they are expensive. But I am thinking it may be my only option at this point? I did request copies of two complaints filed against builder from the ROC as well. One is resolved legal and the other is legal pending. So I am thinking I should wait for those.
It’s a bad situation for sure.
Sorry that you are going through this.
Hopefully, you will be able to figure out a successful resolution.
I will try to think of anything that can help and I will post any new ideas if I can think of anything.
Sorry that you are going through this.
Hopefully, you will be able to figure out a successful resolution.
I will try to think of anything that can help and I will post any new ideas if I can think of anything.
I measured slope and it goes from 8ft depth to just under five foot depth in just under 7 feet at one end and less at the other since the slope is not straight or level. Code violation right. Their plan is wrong too. Anymore advice you could as to how to approach ROC would be very much appreciated. I know the whole thing is wrong but since they won’t fix it. I have to do all the bureaucracy BS just to get my pool done right. They keep saying they are “the experts” and I don’t know what I’m talking about. It’s fine. There’s nothing wrong. That’s all they say. Note plan says depth 7’6”. It’s over 8 feet with just shot so don’t know if that’s an issue to bring up as it’s not completed and depth will change.
Attachments
At this point, you will probably need to hire an engineer with pool expertise to advise you as they will have the necessary credibility to deal with the builder and inspector.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 52,882
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
When bureaucracy refuses to do the right thing it takes legal and political muscle along with exposure and public shaming to change their behaviors.
It often becomes them CYA until their A is too exposed.
It often becomes them CYA until their A is too exposed.
Jaffles
Bronze Supporter
- May 4, 2022
- 150
- Pool Size
- 22500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron eQuilibrium EQ35
Be prepared also the builder will know or have dealt with any or every angle you come from. They have seen it all before and its often, and sadly, just another pool in the daily grind for them.
Given out of date documentation is present, I imagine a scrambling to re create something that looks current will be going on in the back ground. If plans and engineer report are meant to be lodged with authorities first that may be difficult however. If he has mislead you and authorities than it may end up in tears for someone, but I would not pay another cent.
I have an issue with my pool fence, the inspectors tend to know each other and stick together. They don't like to disagree amongst themselves so a independent engineer is a good call. Your du diligence will be trying to work out what pool builders the engineer works for. Many builders build between 50 to 100 pool a year so its little churning industry in which they all like to support each other. I found even smaller builders are shy on advice as they all use the same pebbles, gunite crews and so on. So to comment on a big play may mean their contractors suddenly dry up.
stay calm and best of luck. Take lots of pictures and keep notes of conversations. Try to get corripondance via email.
Given out of date documentation is present, I imagine a scrambling to re create something that looks current will be going on in the back ground. If plans and engineer report are meant to be lodged with authorities first that may be difficult however. If he has mislead you and authorities than it may end up in tears for someone, but I would not pay another cent.
I have an issue with my pool fence, the inspectors tend to know each other and stick together. They don't like to disagree amongst themselves so a independent engineer is a good call. Your du diligence will be trying to work out what pool builders the engineer works for. Many builders build between 50 to 100 pool a year so its little churning industry in which they all like to support each other. I found even smaller builders are shy on advice as they all use the same pebbles, gunite crews and so on. So to comment on a big play may mean their contractors suddenly dry up.
stay calm and best of luck. Take lots of pictures and keep notes of conversations. Try to get corripondance via email.