Decking to tile to pebble...seap crack fix?

[chunky]

Help with proper fix/product.

Started with a suspected pool leak. Did't intend to pull tile off, but hollow sounds made me suspicious and the loose tile coincide with the sidewall cracks in pebbletec. Above each of those areas is an expansion gap in the decking. I'm no pro, but it seems to me water leached down from the decking and started the damage. Is this correct thinking? I 've scraped out nearly the entire top gap of the perimeter of pool and intend to use a silicone product and seal the top line of the tile. Is that proper?

Question...what is the best fix for the decking? I was going to use a siliconized concrete product and pump that in the gap above the tile. I'm going to chip out and grind down the pebble cracks and patch with a pebble patch product that is available here in az. Not perfect match, but I can live with it.

2nd question...Reattaching tile. I have an adhesive mix for water application and grout that is also pool rated. However I'm unsure what to do at the bottom of tile where it meets the pebble. Do I grind out a gap and patch that, or can I set tile in a thin layer of epoxy or similar? My guess is grind out a small strip and patch in after tile has set.

A couple photos of deck, tile, crack, pebble....headache. Feedback appreciated. Thanks.





Jeff

 

[ajw22]

@bdavis466 @MinerJason thoughts?

 

[bdavis466]

The crack and the reason for it needs to get addressed first. Do you have any idea what caused it?

It looks like the gunite is cracked. A control joint in the decking wouldn't be likely to cause that

 

[MinerJason]

I agree with Brian on all counts.

The fact that the cracks are near the decking control joints is likely just coincidence. And water infiltration wouldn't be likely to cause any of these issues, especially in our climate.

You really need to determine what's causing those cracks in the gunite, which is not an easy task. Are there cracks in the decking near the pool? Was the gunite in those areas changed at all during the remodel in 2005? Do you have a photo of the whole pool/spa that shows where these cracks are in relation to everything else?

 

[chunky]

Thanks for responses.

I can't say exactly what was done in 2005. I saw things intermittently. I was working and only witnessed certain days of work. No one brought a structural issue to our attention, so I assume they did a typical redo.

We've done a bit of stuff in the back of this property. Maybe things shifted? We live off the hills of mesa mountain and it's all basically decomposed granite according to a dirt guy that did some grade work for us. We put in the grill area and put in about a1K sf pavers behind house and another 500 sf to east where blue lounge chairs on in 2nd photo below. Dug a new leach pit, but that's off to the SW side and farther away than the original pit. Plants are more mature, but seem far enough away? We spent a bit of time regrading east side of property because in hard rains we get a lot of run off. We get a little standing water near areas 2 and 3 noted below. Canal is behind us, and everything runs to the valley, west/sw direction.

In any event, here are a few photos. We have asked a couple of pb's ball park $. Maybe it's time to chip out and redo. See if there is a more serious fault.

Crack 1 is near green power sprayer at left in 1st photo below, 2nd is on this side of ladder in 1st photo, 3rd crack is opposite side just off end of beach area...near middle of pool. Those are all the vertical cracks that I could see so figured might as well put a finger in the dike. Maybe a waste of time.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[ajw22]

Do you have an expansion joint between the coping and the concrete deck?

Pool Expansion Joint

• ajw22
• Jan 25, 2019

 

[chunky]

Do you have an expansion joint between the coping and the concrete deck?

Pool Expansion Joint

• ajw22
• Jan 25, 2019

The deck is comprised of larger sections that extend to paver area or dirt. The expansion joints are perpendicular to pool. There is a joint at paver edge. The area of deck near pool area stamped for effect. Make sense?

 

[ajw22]

Do you have an expansion joint between the coping and the concrete deck?

The deck is comprised of larger sections that extend to paver area or dirt. The expansion joints are perpendicular to pool. There is a joint at paver edge. The area of deck near pool area stamped for effect. Make sense?

Those concrete expansion joints are for a different purpose.

The pool and coping is a separate structure from the deck and surrounding dirt and they need to be able to move independently. Without an expansion joint between them the deck can press against the coping and cause cracking. Something has to give.

 

[MinerJason]

In any event, here are a few photos. We have asked a couple of pb's ball park $. Maybe it's time to chip out and redo. See if there is a more serious fault.

Crack 1 is near green power sprayer at left in 1st photo below, 2nd is on this side of ladder in 1st photo, 3rd crack is opposite side just off end of beach area...near middle of pool. Those are all the vertical cracks that I could see so figured might as well put a finger in the dike. Maybe a waste of time.

No real red flags looking at the photos. I really have no idea what might be causing the shell to crack like that. Nothing about the rock/soil in that area or the surrounding structures gives any indication about something that could cause that. Sorry I can't be more help.

Do you have an expansion joint between the coping and the concrete deck?

Those concrete expansion joints are for a different purpose.

The pool and coping is a separate structure from the deck and surrounding dirt and they need to be able to move independently. Without an expansion joint between them the deck can press against the coping and cause cracking. Something has to give.

There is no coping on the OP's pool, it's a cantilevered deck with a different texture/treatment on the concrete near the pool to mimic the look of coping.

 

[ajw22]

There is no coping on the OP's pool, it's a cantilevered deck with a different texture/treatment on the concrete near the pool to mimic the look of coping.

In the pics in the first post it looks like the stone on top of the pool is mortared/grouted to the bond beam. What keeps the deck floating above the pool structure?

I don’t understand the buildup to say that deck is not putting pressure on the pool causing the cracks.

 

[chunky]

Do you have an expansion joint between the coping and the concrete deck?


Those concrete expansion joints are for a different purpose.

The pool and coping is a separate structure from the deck and surrounding dirt and they need to be able to move independently. Without an expansion joint between them the deck can press against the coping and cause cracking. Something has to give.

This pool was originally built in mid 80's by Cameo Pools...if anyone remembers them. We bought property in late 2000. Remodeled pool in 2005. I

No real red flags looking at the photos. I really have no idea what might be causing the shell to crack like that. Nothing about the rock/soil in that area or the surrounding structures gives any indication about something that could cause that. Sorry I can't be more help.



There is no coping on the OP's pool, it's a cantilevered deck with a different texture/treatment on the concrete near the pool to mimic the look of coping.

No real red flags looking at the photos. I really have no idea what might be causing the shell to crack like that. Nothing about the rock/soil in that area or the surrounding structures gives any indication about something that could cause that. Sorry I can't be more help.



There is no coping on the OP's pool, it's a cantilevered deck with a different texture/treatment on the concrete near the pool to mimic the look of coping.

Perhaps it's just old. Originally built in mid 80's by Cameo Pools...maybe you remember them?

We'll find out more. Gonna put water back in later this week. See what happens.

 

[chunky]

In the pics in the first post it looks like the stone on top of the pool is mortared/grouted to the bond beam. What keeps the deck floating above the pool structure?

I don’t understand the buildup to say that deck is not putting pressure on the pool causing the cracks.

As MinerJason said, it's stamped deck, not other stone. Just large slabs of decking. However I thought the same about grouting to top. I would prefer a silicon grout/caulk on top to allow some flex and still seal. Not sure if that's the answer, but seems appropriate.

 

[ajw22]

As MinerJason said, it's stamped deck, not other stone. Just large slabs of decking. However I thought the same about grouting to top. I would prefer a silicon grout/caulk on top to allow some flex and still seal. Not sure if that's the answer, but seems appropriate.

So you have the expansion joint. It should be on the cantilever over the bond beam.

I think you need to structurally decouple the deck from the pool. Use something like Vulken #45 SSL Sealant for a flexible seal. Read Expansion Joint Caulking Around Inground Swimming Pools

 

[MinerJason]

In the pics in the first post it looks like the stone on top of the pool is mortared/grouted to the bond beam. What keeps the deck floating above the pool structure?

I don’t understand the buildup to say that deck is not putting pressure on the pool causing the cracks.

The cantilever deck is resting on top of the bond beam, and based on the vintage of the pool the decoupling of the bond beam and decking was likely either a few handfuls of sand or a layer of butcher paper rather than an actual expansion joint material. It's a very common construction method in this part of the country. The decking is certainly putting some slight downward pressure on the bond beam, but that wouldn't cause the vertical cracks being seen. Even if the decking weren't decoupled from the bond beam, and were moving/shifting significantly, any cracks would be unlikely to be vertical or extend down as low as the pics indicate.

Appears that when the pool was last remodeled they installed the tile a bit higher than the original build, so if the decking shifts toward the pool at all it could pop tiles off. That's unlikely with the OP's climate and soil type though.

As MinerJason said, it's stamped deck, not other stone. Just large slabs of decking. However I thought the same about grouting to top. I would prefer a silicon grout/caulk on top to allow some flex and still seal. Not sure if that's the answer, but seems appropriate.

Yes, definitely use something flexible for that. If you use a rigid grout and the decking shifts at all you'll get tiles popping off. As mentioned above, that's still a possibility even with a flexible joint material due to how high the tiles are placed in relation to the decking.

 

[chunky]

So you have the expansion joint. It should be on the cantilever over the bond beam.

I think you need to structurally decouple the deck from the pool. Use something like Vulken #45 SSL Sealant for a flexible seal. Read Expansion Joint Caulking Around Inground Swimming Pools

Thanks AJW. I did some prior research and read about the Vulken product.

When you say structurally decouple are you suggesting removing the decking and reinstall? If I understand your argument, the decking is putting pressure on the pool wall itself?