Dallas (Southlake) Area New Build - July 2022 - Construction Thread

[davecraze]

UPDATE - We finally got started on this project. Link below to later post in the thread:

Dallas (Southlake) Area New Build - July 2022 - Construction Thread

UPDATE - We finally got started on this project. Link below to later post in the thread: https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/dallas-southlake-area-new-build-july-2022.258167/#post-2256273 Builder: Aquaterra (best combination of bid+ experience +design aesthetic alignment) —————————...

www.troublefreepool.com

Builder: Aquaterra (best combination of bid+ experience +design aesthetic alignment)
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Excavation - June 28 to July 8
Drilling piers - Unfortunately, drilling for concrete piers hit ground water at 9 feet, so had to redo the engineering and also switch to like 40 helical piers (increased cost +++, of course, also excavation cost of 2x).
Rough stub plumbing and electrical - July 16 to July 28
Rebar (double matte) - July 18 to July 27 - extended to August 2 to increase basin depths and then more work through august then to sept to work through new engineering certifications plus deal with cave-ins from excessive rain
Gunite 12" walls and floors - September 30
Gunite waterproofing and yard grading - October 4
Long gas lines run - Oct 9
Long plumbing and stub electrical, cut channel for acrylic panel - Oct 13
Acrylic panel installed - Oct 18
Electrical inspection - Oct 20
Basecrete application and begin feature wall and in step pad bases - Oct 20
Tile and Cabana framing - Nov-Dec
Deck framing and gravel done - Jan 2023
Drainage done and tied in - Jan 2023
Surge basin concrete cap done - Jan 2023
Footers poured - Jan 2023
Retaining wall excavation started - Jan 2023
Sport court excavation underway - rebar is next - Jan 2023
Sport court slab and retaining wall completed - Feb 2023
Waterproofing of feature wall and planters - Feb 2023
Deck in progress - Feb 2023
Mostly tile work - March 2023
- Feature wall tile in process
- In pool planters
- Fire pit surround tile
- Finish waterline tile
April 2023
- Grading, and more grading.
- Concrete pads formed up
- Rear steps roughed out
- Cabana step downs roughed in
- Infratech WD60 heaters and flush mounts boxed in (2 in cabana, 4 in existing patio)
- Existing patio demoed for new tongue and groove ceiling.
- Cabana cabinets roughed in
- Various tile work continues
May 2023
- concrete work, pads, and bases
- 24 foot water fall fixture
- stone step pads
- sport court installed
- stucco retaining and feature walls
July 2023
- pre plaster shell prep, cleaning and fittings
- landscaping started (beds, retaining walls, holly trees planted)
- irrigation almost done
- screening fences started
- cabana coming along finally (stucco in process, counters installed, and counter face tile done, t&g ceiling done, shade structure in fabrication)
- t&g ceiling done in existing patio
- plaster and acid wash
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Howdy, y'all. We are are in DFW and we are bidding out our pool/backyard. I have been following this board intently as we finally finished design (fourth designer was the charm)

Sorry, I don't have render shots. I only have a screenshot of the plans and the video link (

).

Advice, criticism and thoughts all solicited and welcome. We have one bid and it's pretty shocking (attached). We will be getting two more. Thoughts?

​

 

[Oona]

That looks like it is going to be a lot of fun when it is all finished. Hopefully your other bids roll in a good bit
less than this one though-the base pool price alone is pretty extreme for the size, even being a negative edge, same for the freestanding structure

 

[davecraze]

Thanks! Yes it does seem high even for base pool (though the spa is on the larger size) and I have told that builder he needs to do much better or he is out of contention. That structure is also way out of whack in my view.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Dave,

Keep in mind that the nicer your neighborhood, the higher your pool price will be. The same exact backyard and pool a mile away could be much cheaper.

While you are evaluating your prospective pool builder, he is evaluating the size of your wallet..

And based upon the price, you must have to carry it in a small trailer...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Marc1310]

Howdy, y'all. We are are in DFW and we are bidding out our pool/backyard. I have been following this thread intently as we finally finished design (fourth designer was the charm)

Sorry, I don't have render shots. I only have a screenshot of the plans and the video link (

).

Advice, criticism and thoughts all solicited and welcome. We have one bid and it's pretty shocking (attached). We will be getting two more. Thoughts?

View attachment 386719

​

We are your neighbors to the North, btw. I just read your bid and I nearly died.

 

[Marc1310]

Dang

 

[joepaiii]

That is really - really high in my opinion. Is the elevated pool your idea? That seems to be driving up the cost. See where the other bids come in. Also make sure it is reasonable relative to your home value.

 

[TampaKathy]

Only looking at the pool part of the quote but so many things have me scratching my head...like all his calc's of how big areas are...like, how is a 8x12 sunshelf 223 sq feet and where the heck is he going to put 48 lights? You need like 4. Do you want the inline chlorinator? Consider salt. Infloor cleaning $21k?! I paid $3k extra. I don't see how the size of your pool could need 62 pop up heads...I guess I don't have the exact same infloor cleaner so maybe that's the difference but it seems excessive.

 

[davecraze]

Thanks very much, forum friends.

Unfortunately, the raised pool is one of the most important parts of the design to us, so that is a driver we will need to live with.

On the lights, I do understand that point. There are lights under the steppers, under the scuppers and some other places in addition to the normal in-pool lights, but I don't know how that adds up to 48 - will need to investigate.

On the infloor cleaning, after reading posts here, I think we will delete that, as seems to not be worth the trouble and they always are breaking.

 

[gingrbredman]

Love, love, love to see a big project like this. Go big or go home! That being said, there are a few things in this quote alone that you could change to make an even better pool and backyard space. Maybe this builder is not interested in changing anything, but for future bids, you may find someone who is willing to work with improved selections.

As Kathy mentioned, 48 lights is just absurd for the pool. Even at 18 x 42, which is a big pool, that is like stadium lighting! In that quote, it says "color changing or dimmable white". Later in the quote it does mention "Globrite" as the lights, which are color changing, but not the right choice of lights in a modern pool. There are the older lights from Pentair, and have a special niche required for install. And they fail, and you can only replace them with the exact same, older light. If going with Pentair, the Microbrite would be a better choice. No special niche, their newest light, and could be replaced in the future with any similar light.

Like the Pentair equipment choices except the "Bioshield UV and inline chlorinator". Do some reading on UV here, you will see it is more fluff and no stuff, especially for an outdoor pool in Texas, and especially for a pool that big. A IC60 salt water chlorine generator (SWCG) would be a perfect fit for that pool and equipment and give you a TFP! Many Texas builders will give you a load of Crud about why they don't do them, but they are not based in science or modern pool building technology. A builder who is still using globrights would tend to also use an inline chlorinator or "UV" so I can see the old school equipment thoughts, but it is your pool, and you will have to deal with all the unnecessary issues with the older style equipment.

Which does surprise me the builder is quoting an Intellicenter. Usually, old school equipment guys will quote Easy Touch, but looks like the Ic8 is in the quote. If you have solid WiFi near by, you will not need ethernet hardwire as noted. I do have mine hardwired, just cause I like the hard lines and it was easy, but many just use the Wifi access and it works locally great.

Also, like the decision to ditch the in floor cleaning. A $1k robot, or even two for that matter for the price, is a way better way to clean that pool.

I can't comment on the other parts of the build, but love the entire design and layout of a resort style backyard and hope you continue with a build page so we can follow along!

 

[PCR]

Thanks very much, forum friends.

Unfortunately, the raised pool is one of the most important parts of the design to us, so that is a driver we will need to live with.

On the lights, I do understand that point. There are lights under the steppers, under the scuppers and some other places in addition to the normal in-pool lights, but I don't know how that adds up to 48 - will need to investigate.

On the infloor cleaning, after reading posts here, I think we will delete that, as seems to not be worth the trouble and they always are breaking.

Gorgeous pool and backyard design! I hope you do a build page so we can follow along! I haven't looked too closely at your bid, but regarding in-floor cleaning vs robot ... just be aware that the robot will not clean your wet deck, steps or benches. You also have what look to be like narrow areas around the overflow spa that the robot would not get into, and based on the video, I don't think the robot would get around your in-pool barstools (and if it did, it would probably be bad because it would wind up the cord and get caught on them). I'm not sure if your catch basin is large enough to put a robot in, but if not, that would be another area the robot would not clean. So I'm just wondering if your builder is proposing in-floor cleaning in your case just because you have so many areas where a robot will not work, and he would put pop-ups for the in-floor in all those spaces. I have a robot for my pool and love it - would not consider anything else - but I don't have all the neat extra features that you do. I do have a wet deck and steps and even having to brush those regularly is a little bit of a pain.

Whether you keep the in-floor system or not, I would suggest getting rid of the pentair racer vacuum in your bid and any additional pump that might be requiring. Either switch for a robot or, if you end up sticking with the in-floor system, don't buy anything else yet until you see how the in-floor performs on its own. If you keep the in-floor, there are other folks on here that have them that recommend you at least make sure you still get returns in the pool walls (which it looks like you already have in your bid) and get the in-floor plumbed such that you can turn it off (if it breaks or whatever) and still run the pool and have good circulation.

One other little thing - I see you have one side of the pool at 3.5 feet deep. That's quite shallow. I have 3'9" for my shallow end and wish I went with 4 feet. Suggest increasing that depth to 4'.

Good luck with your build!

 

[joel98z]

I watched the video and thought to myself, I bet that is a million + project. While my pool is a 1/10th of that price I had major sticker shock when I got bids (4 of them) but found most builder are pretty comparable on price. Ultimately, we had to decide: Do we really need this or that little feature (this can really push the throttle on the price) and then go with the builder we thought was most reputable and trustworthy. At the money you are going to spend I would not go with the cheapest, go with the builder you feel comfortable will deliver. There are tons of fly-by-night builders in DFW area.

 

[joel98z]

Looked over your proposal, this is a red flag to me. No bid that I got from any builder included this. And they made it very clear the only cost increase after contract signing would be rock time, changes, and weather damage. Material and Labor price locked in.

Base Pool Total includes a contingency allowance of $5,000, to be allocated to unforseen costs. Unforseen costs to include: Hard Rock Digs, Muck Outs, Flash, Utility Reroutes, Weather Damage, Material & Labor Increases, etc Written notice will be given for each allocation, with any unused amount to be deducted from final payment

 

[.ben]

Looked over your proposal, this is a red flag to me. No bid that I got from any builder included this. And they made it very clear the only cost increase after contract signing would be rock time, changes, and weather damage. Material and Labor price locked in.

Base Pool Total includes a contingency allowance of $5,000, to be allocated to unforseen costs. Unforseen costs to include: Hard Rock Digs, Muck Outs, Flash, Utility Reroutes, Weather Damage, Material & Labor Increases, etc Written notice will be given for each allocation, with any unused amount to be deducted from final payment

Agreed. None of my bids included labor or material increases. No way I would agree to that.

Also don't like the line:
It is the Buyer’s responsibility to absorb the added cost for a Hard Dig (Rock Excavation). If rock is encountered during excavation, Buye be billed $400.00 per hour until rock excavation is completed, and any dump fees associated with rock haul off.

We do not have rock in Houston so I'm not sure how DFW typically handles rock but I would argue you should be responsible for the actual cost of rock removal only. Based on this language if the rock guys are taking a break or having equipment issues or the PB hires the cheapest/slowest contractor you are paying $400 an hour. That's crazy to me, but maybe its standard in your area. Something to look out for on your other bids.

 

[davecraze]

Really great feedback - thank you all. I am supposed to be getting the second bid today so will be interesting check-and-balance.

gingrbredman: We have the flexibility to change things - would just need to have specific asks. I don't know if the 48 lights are all the water-touching lights or are just inside the main pool. I suspect that includes many more lights than just the actual main in pool illumination, but will need to check. I will research the globrite vs microbrite.

PCR: Good point on the deck, narrow areas and the bar seats in relation to the robot vs infloor cleaning. I will need to do some more research on that and the shallow end depth.

joel98z: Excellent advice and was our thought exactly. We previously worked with four different local pool companies (and their inhouse designers) from design to preliminary bid before we decided that we wanted to take a complete fresh look. We started all over with Randy Angell Designs (he was super busy and took like two-three months to even get an initial consult) and this was the second version of his vision for the backyard, based on our requirements/desires. The three bids that we are getting are all builders recommended by Randy and companies that (i) he has worked with regularly in DFW and (ii) would have a build like this squarely in their wheelhouse. I am sure there is a lot of value-engineering that we can do on the build, but I only want to do that process once after we have selected the winning builder.
Also, we are not accepting any material and labor changes post contract signing - the terms of this proposal have not been intensely negotiated yet.

.ben: I thought about that also. That language will need to be tightened up if this bid ends up being the winner.

 

[Cena_sea]

The pool design looks absolutely amazing. It's a work of art.

We also wanted a raised pool and I can PM price difference as we were told what it would be with it or without via a couple builders. One builder where we had three meetings--our last meet was a matter of cutting out everything we could live without. It was via zoom and they were able to immediately show us on the screen what things would look like with the modifications and the price difference so we could decid if we wanted that back or was okay with it gone etc...

 

[gingrbredman]

I don't know if the 48 lights are all the water-touching lights or are just inside the main pool. I suspect that includes many more lights than just the actual main in pool illumination, but will need to check. I will research the globrite vs microbrite.

Looks to me, based on the wording of the bid, there are in fact 48, water submersed lights going somewhere in that pool/spa.



Globrites are in water lights. I thought maybe the same thing at first, no way, some of these have to be landscape lights. But you have a different section on landscape lights that includes another 88 lights.


All in, there are 136 total lights in that proposal haha, man, we will see this property from space!

Just one more note on the lights, at least the pool lights that is. However many lights you have, decide on how you want them to be controlled, because the number of transformers will determine if you can or can not do something. For example, if 12 lights are on one transformer, they all will function the same. Another 12 on a different one, those are controlled different (or the same if you want them to). Just thinking, with a lot of lights (maybe not 48), you can have a lot of zones and get creative with the lighting.

 

[davecraze]

So after several months of mulling it over, we have finally started work on our pool and backyard in the DFW area. It's our first time building a pool, so I am sure I will have many, many questions.

Initial question thread: Was merged into this one by the mods.

Thanks to all those that have provided feedback so far - we are very excited about this project. Schedule says completion in about six months, and that is with slack built in, but we are under no illusions that it will be that quick.

We have already made a few changes to these plans around the edges (ex: upgrade to Prism Matrix, Millboard decking, more trees along the back wall, selected all the cabana appliances), but the main design has finally settled down.

I will try to keep this thread updated as we make progress. Cheers, jeers, and comments welcome.

 

[Texas Splash]

Good luck on the build! Hopefully they get it done in time for you to get some swim time this year.

 

[TampaKathy]

How are you chlorinating?