I purchased Haviland Salt Support so I could start adding borates to my pool. Salt Support says to never use it in a pool with CYA above 50, but TF says for a SWG pool I should have my CYA at 70. I want to use borates to slow my PH rise, but also struggle with maintaining adequate FC levels on the weekends, probably due to UV exposure. I’m sure I’ll eventually figure out what to put the SWG on for sunny weekends to maintain, but I haven’t as of yet. Anyone have a scientific reason why they might recommend CYA needs to be lower with Salt Support, or do you think they’re just following the typical 30-50 PPM CYA recommendation?
CYA levels with Haviland Salt Support
- Thread starter beachbabeBrandy
- Start date
The scientific reason is that they don't know the difference between their cubitus and their gluteus maximus.
It's sunny during the week too. You need to treat daily or you're going to have sucky weekends draining your swamp.
I have an autocover and my pool is shaded when we swim after work…I have no trouble maintaining adequate levels during the week. My SWG is always on. I just can’t get the weekend dialed in.
Ok. Next time lead with that juicy nugget of Intel.
Just looked this up and it looks like typical (unneeded) pool store magic potion.
Do not blindly add *any chemicals* weekly.
Never. EVER. Add something that you can't tell me what it is.
Never. EVER. Add something that you can't tell me why you needed it. And/or what it will do.
Never clean the cell without visible scale. Use a popsicle stick, then a stream of water, then vinegar. Not acid or expensive cleaners.
It is borates. It is not a magic potion from a pool store. There are several posts on this site that talk about using it in lieu of using Muriatic acid and Borax to add borates to your pool. I just need the question I asked to be answered. I appreciate your time but I’m not in need of lectures on anything else. I didn’t mention my autocover or the shade because they have nothing to do with the question I asked.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,705
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- 16000
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- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Haviland Salt Support is simply a mixture of borax and boric acid that gives a roughly pH neutral addition of borates to pool water. It’s also an excessively expensive way to add borates to a pool. Simply buying pure boric acid and adding that to a pool is a much cheaper way to do it. Boric acid is a weak acid that only decreases pH slightly while borax (sodium tetraborate pentahydrate) is a strong base that raises pH. So it’s cheaper and easier to use boric acid in a pool and not worry about the minor decrease in pH than to use borax and have to add muriatic acid to compensate for the strong rise in pH.
Your pool/your money, if you want to use the overpriced Haviland product …
As to your question - yes, their recommendations regarding CYA make no sense and is more than likely just the standard industry recommendation of having CYA between 30 and 50ppm.
As to your reasoning(s) regarding the use of borates - if your pool is covered most of the week, then pH rise should not be as much of an issue for you and not really require the use of borates. Also, your SWG should be more than enough to keep the pool’s chlorine levels stable regardless of the day of the week and so that points to a chemistry issue with your pool or, possibly, a sanitation issue.
Before diving in with adding expensive chemicals to your pool that may not have the effects you are hoping for, you might post test results and add some details about what’s going on. The guides and experts on this forum have, in combination, decades of experience dealing with finicky pool issues. Availing yourself of that experience and advice might prove useful and could save you a few bucks …
Your pool/your money, if you want to use the overpriced Haviland product …
As to your question - yes, their recommendations regarding CYA make no sense and is more than likely just the standard industry recommendation of having CYA between 30 and 50ppm.
As to your reasoning(s) regarding the use of borates - if your pool is covered most of the week, then pH rise should not be as much of an issue for you and not really require the use of borates. Also, your SWG should be more than enough to keep the pool’s chlorine levels stable regardless of the day of the week and so that points to a chemistry issue with your pool or, possibly, a sanitation issue.
Before diving in with adding expensive chemicals to your pool that may not have the effects you are hoping for, you might post test results and add some details about what’s going on. The guides and experts on this forum have, in combination, decades of experience dealing with finicky pool issues. Availing yourself of that experience and advice might prove useful and could save you a few bucks …
Sorry. The other 6 steps of the 7 step program are pool store magic and/or unnecessary. As a new member, I am questioning the whole product line on your behalf.
I answered it in the first post. The industry doesn't know their butts from their elbows.
They don't respect the relationship between FC and CYA and treat them as 2 individual values.
For sanitizing, the industry generally says the CYA can be up to 150, because with no regard to the FC level, a 150 CYA is harmless. But most salt cell manufacturers reccomend 30 to 50, so then salt pools must stay within that range.
We have plenty of members adding borates at higher CYA levels and the two are independently irrelevant of each other.
Thanks so much for this in depth response. I also want the feel and sparkle described by adding borates, so that is really my primary motivator. I feel like my pool is very balanced. I add acid once a week and that’s pretty much it. I am just having trouble figuring out a stable percentage to set my salt cell to, to not have mg chlorine dip down to 1.5-1.8 on a sunny day with a few visitors. The primary motivation of my post was really to see if there was any reason I couldn’t add borates, AND increase my CYA to 70 or so, to help out the UV destruction I experience on the weekends! I’m usually at 3.5 FC, 7.4 PH, 80 TA, 3200 Salt, 50 CYA and 200 CH during the week. Hoping to add borates AND CYA so as to not have such wild swings in FC.
Yeah I’m only doing step 1. This will be the only thing I ever add to my pool other than Muriatic acid about weekly and the occasional baking soda.Sorry. The other 6 steps of the 7 step program are pool store magic and/or unnecessary. As a new member, I am questioning the whole product line on your behalf.
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I answered it in the first post. The industry doesn't know their butts from their elbows.
They don't respect the relationship between FC and CYA and treat them as 2 individual values.
For sanitizing, the industry generally says the CYA can be up to 150, because with no regard to the FC level, a 150 CYA is harmless. But most salt cell manufacturers reccomend 30 to 50, so then salt pools must stay within that range.
We have plenty of members adding borates at higher CYA levels and the two are independently irrelevant of each other.
- Mar 5, 2020
- 3,221
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- 66000
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- Plaster
- Chlorine
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- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V35
I just looked up the SDS of the starter component. Seems to contain Borax and CYA. That probably explains why they don't recommend to add it from certain CYA levels on.
But since they don't seem to quantify how much CYA is in there, I'd stay away from it. Add Boric Acid and CYA separately, then you'll know what you're getting
But since they don't seem to quantify how much CYA is in there, I'd stay away from it. Add Boric Acid and CYA separately, then you'll know what you're getting
- Sep 23, 2015
- 2,012
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- 20000
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- Astral Viron V25
Don’t hold your breath waiting for that feel and sparkle, it’s subjective and maybe even placebo in nature. Some say yes I honestly didn’t notice any difference in feel. My pH is more stable.
- Mar 5, 2020
- 3,221
- Pool Size
- 66000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V35
Same here. Great for pH, and double great to keep the SWG cell clean. But the water looks and feels still like water.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,246
- Pool Size
- 35000
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- Plaster
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- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
So let’s talk about why you cannot get your IC20 dialed in on the weekend.
I think borates and a bit higher CYA level will not give you the results you expect. No harm in giving it a try though.
It does not look like you have the IC20 controlled by any automation. With Pentair automation you have 1% control on the IC20 output. Without Pentair automation you only have 20% increments between 20% and 100% output.
You have very different chlorine demands with your cover open for the weekend or closed during the week.
Do you increase the IC20 % when you open the cover for the weekends?
I think borates and a bit higher CYA level will not give you the results you expect. No harm in giving it a try though.
It does not look like you have the IC20 controlled by any automation. With Pentair automation you have 1% control on the IC20 output. Without Pentair automation you only have 20% increments between 20% and 100% output.
You have very different chlorine demands with your cover open for the weekend or closed during the week.
Do you increase the IC20 % when you open the cover for the weekends?