Crypto-Outbreak in Melbourne

mgtfp

TFP Expert
Silver Supporter
Bronze Supporter
Mar 5, 2020
3,168
Melbourne, Australia
Pool Size
66000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Astral Viron V35
Melbourne is currently dealing with an increased number of Cryptosporidium outbreaks in public pools, requiring them to close for "Hyper-Chlorination":



What does ""Hyper-Chlorination" in the Victorian regulations mean?

The recommended incident response in Victoria is described here (Appendix 6):


The steps are:

No CYA used (CYA not allowed for public indoor pools in Victoria):
1) Adjust pH to 7.5 or lower
2) "Hyper-Chlorinate" to achieve an FC contact time (CT) of 15300 ppm x min, e.g. 13 hours @ FC 20ppm or 26 hours @ FC 10ppm

CYA used (up to 100ppm allowed in public outdoor pools in Victoria):
1) Reduce CYA to 15ppm or lower
2) Adjust pH to 7.5 or lower
3) "Hyper-Chlorinate" to achieve an FC contact time (CT) of 31500 ppm x min, e.g. 28 hours @ FC 20ppm

The FC-CT of 15300 is a commonly found value for crypto for a kill target of 99.9%, so far so good. They added a factor of 2 when CYA up to 15ppm is used. Let's see if that makes sense.

As we all know, it is actually the HOCl-CT that matters, and not the FC-CT. Assuming that the FC-CT of 15300 ppm x min was derived at pH 7.5 without CYA where 50% of the FC is HOCl, then this would be equivalent to an HOCl-CT of 7650 ppm x min, which is our benchmark to compare with the CYA-scenario.

At CYA 15 ppm, the regulation tells us to use the 31500 FC-CT value.

Let's assume first that we want to "hyper-chlorinate" at FC 10 ppm, which would yield (calculated with chem geek's sheet) 0.75ppm of HOCl (or 7.5% of the FC). This would be roughly the HOCl concentration at TFP's mustard algae SLAM level. This means that the FC-CT of 31500 yields an HOCl-CT of only about 2350. This will actually only kill about 88% of the crypto population, rather than 99.9% (2348 / ln(1-0.88) x ln(1.0.999) = 7656).

When "Hyper-chlorinating"with CYA 15ppm at FC 20ppm (which is the example they give in above guidelines) we'd have 3.5ppm of HOCl (or 17.5% of the FC). This is nearly 5 times of our mustard algae SLAM level - note that at these extreme FC/CYA ratios, the HOCl concentration is no longer proportional to the FC/CYA ratio). This gives us an HOCl-CT of about 5500 ppm x min, killing about 99.3% of the crypto population (5500 / ln(1-0.993) x ln(1.0.999) = 7657), which is getting closer to the intended 99.9%.

I'd say their simplified approach of just doubling the FC-CT time to account for CYA seems to do the trick. The challenge would be to maintain FC at 20ppm for 28 hours in an outdoor pool with only 15ppm of CYA.
 
Great analysis of the Chlorine-CT kill times. There is some pH dependence there and if they required the pH to be dropped closer to 7.0, then the 15ppm CYA would get closer to the right chlorine contact time. But I definitely agree, trying to maintain a high level of chlorine with no CYA would mean testing and dosing a pool every 30mins. That might be possible with a solid automation system but not possible when humans are doing it. I doubt the kid they’re paying minimum wage to watch the pool is too keen on testing the water every 30mins 🙄
 
  • Like
Reactions: mgtfp
In my opinion, building code should require that indoor pools install a supplemental UV system or a secondary oxidizer system like ozone with a contact tank. In fact, one of the most effective forms of oxidative water treatment is pull water into a contact tank with a short wavelength UV source and peroxide injection system. The combination of UV and peroxide will create lots of hydroxyl radicals that will destroy just about anything including cryptosporidium. The water from the contact tank can then be returned to the pool with minimal chlorination. European regulations concerning commercial swimming pools are light-years ahead of what is done here in the US.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mgtfp
Yes, agree on the pH. They only mandate to lower pH at the beginning to 7.5 or lower. It would be better to lower pH closer to 7.0 and also to keep monitoring and adjusting pH. After raising FC to 20 you are already up a bit in pH, which does get important at these levels and the required high contact times. Not just that there will be less HOCl than assumed, but also that there will be more OCl- which will reduce the chlorine lifetime under UV light.

There still is a lot of wriggle room in those guidelines where operators can formally follow them and tick all the boxes without actually achieving the required HOCl-CT. Aussies love ticking boxes.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: JoyfulNoise
And yes on the European pool regulations. Pools in Germany have to be operated without CYA, but they actually consider this in their FC limits, which are (for pools, a bit higher for spas) 0.3ppm to 0.6ppm, which is at the lower end higher than our min values, but the upper end is consistent with our SLAM FC, which we consider the upper end of the swimmable range.

At these ranges you can actually operate unstabilised outdoor pools without insane FC demand. But since you don't have a chlorine reservoir (of chlorinated cyanurates) I think an automated testing/dosing system would be required.

Whereas the Victorian regulations demand a min FC of 1ppm in unstabilised pool water - nearly twice as much as SLAM FC. And a max value of 10ppm (defined via a max TC value).

Interesting concept, this combined ozone/peroxide system.
 
Interesting concept, this combined ozone/peroxide system.

It makes a lot of sense in a public pool because peoples’ beliefs regarding bodily cleanliness just vary too much. There are those that are respectful and stay out of the water when they are unwell and then there are those cretins that will knowingly go into a pool with open wounds, toe fungus, and/or using the pool as their personal bidet after going to the potty and relieving themselves of last nights’ taco grande dinner 🤢 I remember once being at the common pool when we lived in an apartment complex and this fat hairy old guy (not me) walks into the shallow end, submerged himself and then puts a finger to the side of his nose and blows out a wad of snot into the water. Then proceeds to clear the other nostril of mucous … like the pool was his personal bathtub … people are generally gross and do gross and nasty things. I don’t need to be swimming in their filth 🤮
 
… people are generally gross and do gross and nasty things. I don’t need to be swimming in their filth 🤮

Agree. Enough that we have to put up with sharing our pools with our kids. Hang on, didn't we get our pools for our kids? :unsure:
 
Hang on, didn't we get our pools for our kids? :unsure:
We got our first pool *when* we did because of the little kids. But 98% of the *why* was for us. And by us, I mean the Mrs. She wanted it, I didn't, so we compromised and got the pool.

But yeah. I'd never spend that much money at the house for the kids who'd be leaving it in a few years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mgtfp
We got our first pool *when* we did because of the little kids. But 98% of the *why* was for us. And by us, I mean the Mrs. She wanted it, I didn't, so we compromised and got the pool.

But yeah. I'd never spend that much money at the house for the kids who'd be leaving it in a few years.

Agree. We actually didn't want a pool. And when we bought a house that had a pool, we wanted to fill it in. But in the end we didn't, mainly thinking of our son. And we got some good use out of it, so I'm glad we kept it.
 
The combination of UV and peroxide will create lots of hydroxyl radicals that will destroy just about anything including cryptosporidium.
Arn‘t some of these radicals being produced in our outdoor pools for free?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JoyfulNoise

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Arn‘t some of these radicals being produced in our outdoor pools for free?

Yes. UV light interacts with chlorine and can also produce free radical as well. Their concentrations are small so it’s mostly a negligible phenomenon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AUSpool
We got our first pool *when* we did because of the little kids. But 98% of the *why* was for us. And by us, I mean the Mrs. She wanted it, I didn't, so we compromised and got the pool.

But yeah. I'd never spend that much money at the house for the kids who'd be leaving it in a few years.
Reality Reaction GIF by Married At First Sight
 
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.