Crack/rust on deep end bench edge

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theseankelly

Member
Sep 29, 2019
21
Philadelphia PA
While opening up the pool this season, I discovered a rust stain which appears to be coming from a hairline crack along the front edge of a bench/shelf in my deep end:

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From what I can tell online, I either need some $10 magic underwater goo, or I need to sign the deed of my house over to the pool store immediately.

On a serious note -- would anyone be able to offer some advice? Plaster is pretty old and starting to show rough spots in a bunch of places, but no other major gaps/holes/cracks that I'm aware of.

Couple specific questions:
  • Should I mess around with a DIY repair or am I more at risk of masking the problem and letting it get worse?
    • Generally what I'm thinking here is use the acid tabs to clear the stain, chip out anything loose near the crackline, use an underwater patch. I also have the option of draining down to the shelf if that's preferable -- it's only a foot or two down.
  • How urgently does this need to be addressed? (If a re-plaster is needed could it wait 'til the end of the season or even beginning of next)?
Thanks and Best,
Sean
 
It’s a bit more involved. You likely have exposed rebar beneath that crack so the area needs to be chipped out and the source of the iron removed (typically a piece of rebar or rebar tie). Then any chipped out section of gunite is fixed with hydraulic cement and the plaster is patched.

You can clean it up with ascorbic acid but it’s going to continue to stain. If it’s rebar that is rusting then it will continue to corrode away. Over time the rebar can become compromised and lead to more expensive repair work.

A replaster/renovation job would take of the problem too, but that is the “way more expensive “ option.
 
Thanks for the quick, detailed reply!

I know better than to try to cut corners, but just to be clear: patching the plaster directly (without dealing with the gunite, etc -- in an attempt to keep water/oxygen away from the rebar) is not a sufficient (albeit temporary) solution?
 
theseankelly said:
Thanks for the quick, detailed reply!

I know better than to try to cut corners, but just to be clear: patching the plaster directly (without dealing with the gunite, etc -- in an attempt to keep water/oxygen away from the rebar) is not a sufficient (albeit temporary) solution?
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Patching it will not stop the rust from leeching through. It may go away for a few weeks or months, but it will eventually come back. Whatever the source of the rust, either a rebar tie or a piece of rebar itself, it needs to be removed and the area cleaned up. You’re not going to be able to completely waterproof it with a patch and so the rust will continue to eat away at whatever the source of the iron is.

Yes, a temporary patch will hide the problem but it will not fix the problem.
 
theseankelly said:
How about relative urgency -- I'm having a hard time finding a company who's even willing to quote it right now (busy with openings). Is this the sort of thing that can wait 'til later in the year without risking huge complications?
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Your pool is still swimmable and it’s not in any imminent danger of turning into a giant back hole that will swallow up the universe … but you should keep it on the list of things that should be fixed sooner rather than later …
 
Trying to get a company to do a tiny repair like that may be very hard. Once they touch it they become responsible for the whole shelf and any issues that may cause. If you look carefully, that crack extends farther than the rust. Where does it stop? How far will it continue as it is cut out? Couldn't even give you a realistic estimate on hidden damage. If they fix that, what happens if another area pops up 2 feet away? Can they conceal the repair? Not likely. These are reasons a friend who did this work wouldn't even try, too much liability.
 
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theseankelly said:
I appreciate the thoughts 1poolman1. What would you suggest as a path forward then if I can't find anyway? Attempt a manual repair (I'd be moderately comfortable) do nothing for a while, or plan to shell out for a replaster this season?
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If you can live with it, waiting for a replaster is probably the best course. Best replaster is a complete strip-out of all old down to the gunite
Repairing any type of concrete is not as easy as it looks (standard pool plaster is a form of concrete). For starters new concrete plaster will not stick to old without some type of admix, bond coat, etc. That whole section would have to be cut out to get to the source of the rust and beyond. Any rust residue would have to be sealed or it would eventually come to the surface. Your pool may be down longer than anticipated if you don't have everything you need or ready access to it. I don't do that type of work so I can't address all the issues that may arise, but these are some a friend that does has told me about. I helped do it once and that was enough for me to know that I didn't want to again. Just personal preference. I replaced a skimmer once as well, same result.
If you're adventurous, give it a shot.
 

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I'm sorry -- one more follow up. I did actually manage to connect with a local pool renovation company who talked through the problem with me at length. The guy I spoke with quoted $300-$500ish to do the repairs suggested above (chip out, strip down to the gunite, move the rebar, hydraulic cement, replaster). He felt confident about it but did say he couldn't warranty the work because he can't predict how the plaster would adhere and things like this.

Is it worth a gamble to buy me a few years or should I steer clear? Ideally I'd hold off on the replaster until ready to pull the trigger on a full rennovation (incl ile and coping too).
 
theseankelly said:
I'm sorry -- one more follow up. I did actually manage to connect with a local pool renovation company who talked through the problem with me at length. The guy I spoke with quoted $300-$500ish to do the repairs suggested above (chip out, strip down to the gunite, move the rebar, hydraulic cement, replaster). He felt confident about it but did say he couldn't warranty the work because he can't predict how the plaster would adhere and things like this.

Is it worth a gamble to buy me a few years or should I steer clear? Ideally I'd hold off on the replaster until ready to pull the trigger on a full rennovation (incl ile and coping too).
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Unless he is very good, you will always see the repair and it will be thrown away when you do your pool refinish. Just my opinion.
 
1poolman1 said:
Unless he is very good, you will always see the repair and it will be thrown away when you do your pool refinish. Just my opinion.
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Yeah, makes sense.

I don't think a pool refinish is (comfortably) in the cards for me for at least 3-5 years. I'm hoping to do the bare minimum to prevent substantial structural damage to the pool surface in the mean time.

I know @JoyfulNoise was crystal clear in his advice above but I just want to double check -- why exactly wouldn't one of those underwater epoxy-based plaster patches be a good enough temp solution to prevent further structural damage? Are they not waterproof? Or is it that the plaster itself isn't waterproof anyway? In that case hasn't the rebar been rusting for decades and I'm risking a can of worms by chipping out down to the gunite?
 
theseankelly said:
Yeah, makes sense.

I don't think a pool refinish is (comfortably) in the cards for me for at least 3-5 years. I'm hoping to do the bare minimum to prevent substantial structural damage to the pool surface in the mean time.

I know @JoyfulNoise was crystal clear in his advice above but I just want to double check -- why exactly wouldn't one of those underwater epoxy-based plaster patches be a good enough temp solution to prevent further structural damage? Are they not waterproof? Or is it that the plaster itself isn't waterproof anyway? In that case hasn't the rebar been rusting for decades and I'm risking a can of worms by chipping out down to the gunite?
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You can smoosh epoxy into that crack and hide it, sure. The problem is, whatever is rusting there will continue to rust. And eventually that rust will either leak out around the epoxy fill or find another crack to come out of. The point of chipping out that crack is to find out exactly what is rusting and then fix it. If it’s rebar on the shell, the rusty portion of the rebar need to be cut out, cleaned, sealed and then patched with hydraulic cement. Otherwise the rust will continue to utilize the moisture in the shell and it will eat away the rebar. Iron oxidation is not self-limiting … it consumes the iron until it is all gone. So if this is rebar rusting, then the epoxy will just hide it but the process will continue.

By maybe it’s not rebar. Maybe it’s just some junk that got caught between the plaster and the shell. Plaster applicators try to cleanup their work site as best they can but it’s still a construction zone and there’s plenty of crud lying around that can get scooped up into the plaster mix accidentally.

Maybe clean it up and patch it now with epoxy and then maybe call around at the end of the season to see if there are any plaster guys looking for work that could come out and do a more thorough clean up. As @1poolman1 said, they don’t want the liability so you may have to negotiate the job with the understanding that it won’t be perfect and you won’t be nagging them to fix a color/texture variation that will inevitably show up.
 
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