Could never achieve prime and some basic questions.

[new-pool-owner]

Ever since I came into possession of this pool it has had issues. Several, in fact. Let me give some background first.

Background:
1. From day one there were small air bubbles in the pool pump, although the water level at the top
2. My pool setup has a Jandy valve to dictate which of my 4 returns are active. It switches between two sets of two in my pool.
3. My pool setup relies on a float valve to in the skimmer to divert to the main drain. However, I just learned about this and I didn't inherit any float valve so it's been all skimmer this whole time.
3. If I set the Jandy valve 100% in one direction so that 2/4 returns get all the water, one of these returns has visible air bubbles coming out of it.
4. My pool setup has a hole in the wall that looks like a return but it is very located high on the wall. I never fill the water above this and based on the stains on the side of the pool I see that the water line has remained below this before me as well. Water never comes out of this. It is next to the return that has bubbles coming out listed above in point #3.
5. Another return closest to the pump has really small air bubbles or maybe DE (I cannot tell) coming out of it, but only during 3400 RPM when the pump is priming.
6. Recently, the water level in the pump went down to half and could not get any higher. I replaced the leaky slide valve handle and now the water level in the pump is around 90%.

Questions:
1. Is the hole in #4 above an air vent for a return to prevent siphoning? Similar to the venting for drainage in a house? Could this cause air bubbles in the return?
2. It is said air in the pump means a suction side leak, and air in the returns means a leak on the other side after the pump (I forgot the term). However, replacing the slide valve drastically helped the low water level in the water pump and brought it to 90%. Could something else such as an old O-Ring for in the filter bring my back up to 100% in the pump?
3. I have no check valve between the pool pump and the pool. Is this a necessary feature or do some systems somehow avoid water running back into the pool when the pump is off.

 

[Jimrahbe]

npo,

We need pics so that we are all comparing apples to apples... Let's see what your equipment pad looks like and a shot showing the pipe above the water line, etc...

A pool that is operating correctly does not normally need a check valve to keep the pump from draining back into the pool. If the water in the pump is draining back into your pool, then you have a leak allowing air to get into the system.

Sounds like you have a VS pump, but I have no way to know for sure as you have not added your pool's signature to your profile.. Go to Setting and then Signature and then tell us all about your pool.. You can use my signature as an example..

Assuming you have a VS pump then bubbles under the pump lid, at low speed, is quite normal.

Do you have a saltwater pool with a SWCG or Saltwater Chlorine Generator?? If so, bubbles with a SWCG are also normal.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[new-pool-owner]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the reply. I will get pictures tomorrow of the equipment pad, the hole, and the pump lid as it's running. I am not at the house, but for now I can tell you yes I have a variable speed pump.

Here is what I know:

Pump: Hayward SP3200DR
Filter: Hayward DE 48 sq ft filter
Pool type: Chlorine pool (not salt water)

With regards to small bubbles, actually when I first ran the pump it was preset to 3000 RPM and it had small bubbles. According to some youtube videos this meant a leak, but perhaps I am wrong.

Right now when the pump primes at 3400 RPM the water level under the pump lid drops, is that normal? I have it set to 1000 RPM now for 8 hours and at that speed like I said the pump lid is about 90% full of water.

 

[Jimrahbe]

npo,

I have an IntelliFlo which is similar to your Hayward pump.. At 1200 RPM my pump basket is filled to the top with the exception of some large bubbles about an 1/8th of an inch deep.

There is little value to having an operating main drain.. I would not even bother with adding a diverter valve as it will not make any real difference in the way your pool works.

When the pump first comes on and primes, it is not unusual for the water in the basket to go into the pump leaving the basket almost empty for a short period while the pump sucks more water in from the skimmer..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[new-pool-owner]

There is little value to having an operating main drain.. I would not even bother with adding a diverter valve as it will not make any real difference in the way your pool works.

What is the purpose of the main drain?

I've attached some images. Two images are of the mysterious hole in the side of the wall, one is a closer up view the other is a far away shot so you get a feel of its position. The other image is my setup. I never run the booster pump in fact I think it is disconnected from the power source.

I just looked at my pump. A picture is not able to show what's going on but actually at 1000 RPM there appears to be about a 1/2" to 3/4" pocket of air. Does this mean there is an air leak?

When I connect my automatic pool cleaner (The Pool Cleaner), the pump basket then dips to about half. Is this normal? The local pool nerd told me it is a sign of a leak.

 

[Jimrahbe]

npo,

In theory, the main drain allows you to send water to the pump when the water level drops below the skimmer. In practice thousands of pools do not have the diverter that sits below the skimmer basket that makes the main drain work at all... In most cases the pool owners never even know the main drain is not working. If you want to get the main drain working, it will not hurt anything, but it really won't make things any better...

The hole right at the water line looks to me like an overflow pipe. Not sure if it started out that way or not.. You can monitor it during a rain storm and see if the water is leaving your pool via the pipe.

You could have a small air leak, but I would not worry about bubbles at 1000 RPM..

The fact that the water in the pump basket drops when using your suction side cleaner just tells me that the pump cannot pull enough water through the cleaner. Could be that you are just running the pump too fast for that cleaner. And... the first place to start looking for an air leak would be the vacuum hose going to the cleaner.

I am not sure what problem you are chasing... When was the last time you had your DE filter opened and the grids cleaned?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[new-pool-owner]

I am not sure what problem you are chasing... When was the last time you had your DE filter opened and the grids cleaned?

I was chasing an air leak on the suction side based on what the guy at the pool store told me regarding the pump dropping to half when the vacuum was attached and running at 3000 rpm. Add to that some videos on Youtube say that pumps should be filled completely to the top and have zero bubbles, which was never the case.

Many large bubbles come out of one of the jets (under certain conditions), so I thought I had a leak somewhere on the return side.

I just cleaned and recharged my filter about a week ago.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Looks like an overflow pipe. It's strange to have 4 returns and a valve that only let's you run 2 at a time. Never saw that one before. As Jim said you are running pump too fast for cleaner 3000 is way too much. The level dips because there is air in the cleaner line. The air bubbles under your lid are normal for a VS I get a large ring when running 1200rpms for a long time. If I leave pump on for 24hrs the bubble takes up the whole top window of the lid. If you can take some better pics of the equipment pad from different spots so we can see the piping and calving you may be missing something with that return situation and only half being able to work at a time. It doesn't sound like you have a leak but isolating each line may help you figure this out. Take a pic inside your skimmer and how many do you have

 

[new-pool-owner]

we can see the piping and calving

What is "calving"?

It's strange to have 4 returns and a valve that only let's you run 2 at a time

I can run all four at the same time. There is a jandy valve that lets me use all 4 or two at a time and everything in between.

If I run just one set of the two the water in the pool circulates in a clockwise circle and I get good skimmer action. So much that my floating chlorine dispenser gets pushed and stuck into the skimmer. Maybe this was the idea behind the setup?

In the picture below you can see the return line from the filter goes to a black jandy valve and then to two seperate lines. Each of the two lines goes to two returns in the pool.

 

[Jimrahbe]

npo,

The Jandy valve controlling your 4 return lines is currently set to allow all 4 lines to be open.. I see no reason to change the valve position.

(I think Jimmy meant "Valving" or a pic showing what valves you have..)

Return lines will not cause bubbles... Some bubbles are normal.. Too many bubbles are normally caused by a suction side air leak. The suction side is from the pump back to the skimmer.

When you turn off the pump, does the water in the pump basket quickly drain back into your pool?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Sorry for my typos......Jim nailed it. As he said what happens to the pump basket when the pump is off for a while or even hours?
do you have eyeballs in your return lines? I have seen pools that run better with less returns working to have higher velocity to circulate the pool water. In your case I would think with eyeballs you could use all the returns and set them up to have the water circulate well. remember higher speeds dramatically increase the cost of electric usage. most of us with VS pumps want to run slow for energy savings and to produce chlorine for our SWG's

 

[new-pool-owner]

Return lines will not cause bubbles...

In addition to a large air pocket in my pump, I was saying there are also bubbles coming out of my returns.

When you turn off the pump, does the water in the pump basket quickly drain back into your pool?

I don't think so. If it is, it is not very much.

 

[new-pool-owner]

Sorry for my typos......Jim nailed it. As he said what happens to the pump basket when the pump is off for a while or even hours?
do you have eyeballs in your return lines? I have seen pools that run better with less returns working to have higher velocity to circulate the pool water. In your case I would think with eyeballs you could use all the returns and set them up to have the water circulate well. remember higher speeds dramatically increase the cost of electric usage. most of us with VS pumps want to run slow for energy savings and to produce chlorine for our SWG's

3 of the returns are near the surface of the water and are in the same general direction--an acute angle with respect to the pool wall . The other return is much deeper and points perpendicular to the wall.

I think I mentioned it in a previous post, but this is why when I set the jandy valve to use just two certain returns, the pool circulation is much stronger, because it is not expending PSI on that one black sheep return that is deep and perpendicular.

 

[new-pool-owner]

The air bubbles under your lid are normal for a VS I get a large ring when running 1200rpms for a long time.

Is a VS pump more prone to air in the pump strainer basket as opposed to non-VS pumps? Why would running a pump for a long time create a large ring? Doesn't that indicate a suction side air leak?

 

[new-pool-owner]

Oh there is one more issue I forgot to mention. I don't know if there is a problem but I know the situation is different now.

When I first got the pool, during priming at 3400 RPM, if I opened the filter pressure relief valve water would shoot out pretty far. Now it only dribbles out. Im thinking this might point to a leak in some seal in the filter.

Which is the appropriate behavior?