((The following is an excerpt from some PMs between Teapot and myself which ran from 8/14 to 8/16. I quickly found myself in WAY over my head, and asked teapot if I could move this info here for further examination by others. I have not had the time to paste all the PM's together until now.))
This began as a PM in response to a remark teapot made about FPM's Frog experience
This began as a PM in response to a remark teapot made about FPM's Frog experience
The Mermaid Queen said:...I think FPM would agree that she lacked knowledge about her pool, but you [seem to be] implying that there is nothing wrong with the Frog system.
And BTW, copper IS forever, unless you drain your pool.
teapot said:...
yes FPM may agree she lacked the knowledge at the time, however that point has Never been put over until now. To FPM's credit she has gone on to explain the situation so that others may learn by it.
Just like the Nature 2 the frog seems to be pretty useless at allowing the owner to regulate the copper which is absolutely paramount in this type of setup.
I would like to know why you consider copper to be forever as I have to run my ioniser for a few hours each day to top up the copper level which gets depleted as any other chemical does fighting algae and bacteria. It may stick around longer than chlorine but forever is a long time.
The Mermaid Queen said:Teapot,
...
My comment about copper: Metals, like salt, are not used up, nor do they evaporate or break down in the sunlight. Hence metals are always in the water. But the water is not always in the pool. Your copper levels fluctuate because you are losing water (and subsequently copper) through splashout or backwashing.
I am glad you have a way to properly maintain your water sanitation. However, most folks here are looking to ditch the ionizers/N2/Frogs, because a) they have to add chlorine anyway, b) they eventually have trouble that the tabs and ionizers cannot fix (and many times they have caused), and c) the replacement cartridges are very pricey and they are looking for a cheaper way....
teapot said:Thanks TMQ,
I can't disagree over the price of those units, way too high.
Salt goes through a conversion process and is different chemistry.
Here is a paragraph I er' borrowed from Lentech.
How effective is copper-silver ionization?
Copper-silver ionization can deactivate Legionella bacteria and other microorganisms in slow-running water and still water. Legionella bacteria are very susceptive to copper-silver ionization. Copper-silver ionization also takes care of bio film. Copper remains within the bio film, causing a residual effect.
It appears that copper-silver ionization additon causes the number of Legionella bacteria to diminish. After a short period of time, however, the number of Legionella bacteria will rise again because they can also be found in the bio film. Copper that stays behind in the bio film takes care of these bacteria. When copper and silver ions are added to water constantly, the concentration of Legionella bacteria remains low.
The deactivation rate of copper-silver ionization is lower than that of ozone or UV. A benefit of copper-silver ionization is that ions remain in the water for a long period of time. This causes long-term disinfection and protection from recomtamination. Copper and silver ions remain in the water untill they precipitate or absorb to bacteria or algae, and are removed from water by filtration after that.
Once they are absorbed into bacteria and algae they are removed by the oxidiser and filtration.
The Mermaid Queen said:Ok, I am admittedly way over my head here... I use chlorine exclusively and always will, and truly know very little about ionizers except what I have heard.
May I move parts of these posts to "The Deep End" for further consideration by others? While we will probably continue to recommend chlorine only for sanitizing, it is always nice to have intelligent discussion of various other products available.
teapot said:It would probably be quicker to post it in "Agree to disagree" :lol: as I think that's where it will end up.
...
I use chlorine too don't forget and I think on balance, reading some of the posts the KISS principle of BBB are great to straighten people out and give them a level of knowledge.
I wonder what would happen if people found out that borates (boron) is a metal too? the good news is it doesn't seem to have the staining issues of copper....
The Mermaid Queen said:You have some very good points, especially about boron being a metal... is it actually boron that is in borax? I don't know!
I will move the pertinent parts of this discussion to the deep end....
And while we are usually quick to jump on folks that use ionizers, it is always good to hear from folks that use them with positive results, so that we can all discuss benefits and drawbacks of all systems. Knowledge is power!
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teapot said: